ASPIRING AUTHORS: BE AWARE OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING!
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Please note:
While I welcome any and all emails and any further questions that you may have, I politely ask that you read this summary first before asking your questions. I realize we're all very busy and this is a VERY long story though - so I will summarize this long complicated story. If after reading this summary you still have questions I’ll try to help. Just contact me.I realize to many – this warning I’m about to chronicle here will end up leaving some readers scratching their heads saying, “DUH! Everyone KNOWS about those types of scam publishers or agents…” So this warning isn’t for the seasoned savvy published author.
I checked this “new” publishing company out with the Better Business Bureau. Not ONE complaint! When I recently tried to make one myself, I was told I took too long between the time I was swindled out of my money, until I made the complaint. I took too long because it wasn’t until recently that I realized – I wouldn’t be sued for making the complaint! I blogged this story on MySpace – so I’m going to get dinged by Hubpages again for a repeat – but so be it. This needs to be said – spread the news – please pass this on to ANYONE you know who is looking for a publisher in particular if they found this GREAT publisher who wants to publish their manuscript for a "deposit." And always check with Predators and Editors or “The Writer’s Market” NOT “The Christian Writer’s Market” (the author admitted on a Christian newsletter I belong to she is just one person and can’t check all of her listings. I’m not making that up) – before signing ANY contract.
To my knowledge - they accept anyone who contacts them - this alone should be proof enough that this company is nothing but a scam and a fraud. I know of no exceptions to the legitimate publishing houses having to turn down far, far more manuscripts and queries than they accept. It would seem American Book Publishing has never seen a book they didn't love.
American Book Publishing is still scamming people today. I’ve tried EVERYTHING to get this woman into jail. I’ve called the Salt Lake City Attorney General, our Michigan Attorney General, the F.B.I., local Salt Lake City law enforcement. I’ve implored a local Salt Lake City “do gooder” T.V. personality who actually promised to look into my allegations but I’m up against it. The MOMENT you go local – you tend to run into members of the Mormon Church. As this T.V. personality was. Nunn is a Mormon. They just let it drop. Michigan won't touch it, and the locals won't either. Still Nunn scams unsuspecting authors as I write this.
Name an organization – I’ve tried to have this woman stopped, but have been unsuccessful. She even made up a blurb she has on her website with my “recommendation” to publish with her. It’s maddening. I never wrote it! I have asked her to take it down - she said I had to stop "slandering" her and her company. I refused to stop warning others. This is my only recourse.
For those who take the time to visit this blog and to find out about the scam of American Book Publishing (ABP) and the scam artist who runs it -- C. Lee Nunn, a.k.a. "Nathan Fitzgerel" I thank you for taking the time to visit my Hub. Here is my story, one of many authors who was scammed out of a great deal of money.
So - in the interest of helping those who are very pressed for time, yet want to know the essentials of the ABP scam here is a trimmed down (believe it or not) summary of what happened to me -----
Cheryl Nunn was a certified financial planner in California. She lost her license. http://www.cfp.net/learn/disciplineactions.asp Then she apparently decided she wanted to start her own publishing firm under the name C. Lee Nunn. She at first attempted to "borrow" off the name of the Forbes Publishing until the real Forbes Company filed a lawsuit and made her stop. http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-1069.html
Eventually she ended up with the name American Book Publishing (ABP) and that's when I came on the scene - getting attention as a new book author (I had been published in newspapers as a reporter, editorial writer, feature columnist and in periodicals. I also had a work published as a compilation in a book at the time, but this was my first attempt at trying to publish a full length book). After my initial query, I heard from C. Lee Nunn herself asking me for a "deposit" of $750.00 that would be returned to me the moment I sold 500 books. I hesitated and began to research ABP because as green an author as I was, that deposit sounded strange. Plus, she had gotten back to me sooo soon after accepting my manuscript for "consideration."
I not only went to the Better Business Bureau's web site, I called them. I Plugged "American Book Publishing" into every search engine I could find and at that time – this was don't forget when Nunn's ABP literally was first conceived back in and around fall of 2000 – I found nothing negative. One woman wrote to me that I wrote to asking about a publisher who would ask for a deposit – and she did warn me. But hers was the lone voice. I was contacted by "authors" who said they had a lovely experience with ABP (probably Nunn herself writing the letters or members of her family – who knows?) If only I had plugged HER NAME into a search engine! When I checked on the authors, I saw their books WERE being sold on Amazon (having no idea at the time ANYONE can sell ANYTHING on Amazon).
I still hesitated though – Oh that I had listened to that one woman AND MY GUT – and expressed my concern in an email to Nunn. She told me to take the plunge. She had even dropped the "deposit" down to $500.00 (now THAT should have been my very first clue right there, eh?) and that her business was new so to give them a try. It was difficult starting out in the publishing business, she wanted me to "take a chance" on her business and they would take a chance on me as a new author. I am sorry to tell you, I went for it. I actually felt like I should help her out because we'd then both gain from the experience!
I was sent many professional looking documents. My contract was good – I had a lawyer look at it and he said it was OK but he expressed that it seemed too general. As long as it seemed legitimate, I was happy with it though and my friend-lawyer said it seemed legitimate.
My contract stated that my book would be published three years from the date of my signing the contract. Three years to the date my editor (who by the way had become a friend and had confessed she wasn't paid - employees of ABP got paid off the SOLD books ONLY of the authors they worked with) bumped me up to the next step which was the "copyediting" department. This copyeditor insisted that I write an addendum to my book to define what "cult" meant (My book chronicles my experience in the religious cult The Way International). I spent May, June, July, and through August of 2003 on this addendum and presented it under the new deadline I was given. And when I say I spent those months writing the addendum, I mean, I treated that like a 9-5 job. Unlike the story I told of my involvement in the cult that definitely required some research – I wrote this addendum as if I was tackling my master's thesis. I worked so hard on it almost seven days a week that entire time.
I came in under the new deadline and then waited. September, October, November, December and January passed and I heard nothing. Finally after much whining from me and almost impossible attempts to reach ANYONE at ABP – the "head" editor promised to see to my book personally. The final product was polished and edited, reedited and ready to go February of 2004. I was told May would be the "launch" date.
In May I spent $3,000.00 – as encouraged by ABP – on copies of my own book (over priced copies I might add but what the heck did I know?) convinced that I could sell every single copy as I already had been given many advance orders and had worked and worked and gave lectures and talks to pre-promote the sale of my book and had established what I felt to be a large number of contacts in the area of PA that I lived in. Not to mention as an Army wife - I had sort of a world-wide network of friends I believed would support me in buying the book as well.
I was informed by ABP that pre-orders were being taken directly – and about 100 or so people did just that while I waited for my $3,000.00 worth of books to arrive at my home.
Suddenly, I received complaints that while friends and relatives ordered the book direct from the publisher – ABP – and their credit card was definitely charged, they didn't receive a copy of my book even though it had been weeks.
Repeated calls and emails went unanswered at ABP.
We had to move from Pennsylvania to Lansing, Michigan and on June 15th 2004 I was in a panic because the advance orders I had taken personally and promised to deliver to those who ordered weren't going to be fulfilled. My $3,000 order STILL hadn't arrived. BUT June 16th, they did. I stood there while the UPS guy took his gurney and made two trips to my door worth of boxes. I opened one box right in front of him with my husband standing by – and pulled out the first copy which I promptly gave to the UPS guy. I was giddy until I REALLY looked at the cover.
Splashed across the cover of the book it said, "Advance copy not meant for resale." This despite the FACT I sent at least three or four emails explaining I was buying these books at "cost" to sell at retail so that I could take those profits and use it for my intense publicity campaign I'd forge once we moved to Michigan. AND APB sent me an “advance” copy with a letter explaining any books I ordered myself would be exactly like the book I received. Instead, to my shock, I had boxes and boxes of my own books I quite literally could not sell. $3,000 worth of books no less!
I still however, could get no information from anyone at ABP, no answers what-so-ever – regarding the unfulfilled book orders friends and family made. But since I had gotten my personal order, I just sent or gave those stiffed, the books that finally arrived. That meant I was taking the loss on those orders of course.
Finally – upon arrival in Michigan, amid a flurry of unpacking and all it takes to move half-way across the country into a new home – it was in mid-July (as I recall), I received a response to my numerous requests for help regarding the unfulfilled orders.
ABP had moved – so sorry – now, how could they help?
A publisher with supposedly many authors, editors etc. who work for them, moves and they tell NO ONE?
I got through to Nunn – finally - she answers in an email CHEWING ME OUT because I was impatitent to receive answers. People ordered the books from ABP, their cards were charged, but they didn't receive a book and I get chewed out for trying to find out why?!
Nunn and I corresponded a few back and forths when she finally spilled the "why" of the unfulfilled book orders. My addendum "slandered" a wonderful and "respected" church (The Mormon Church) and they were in the process of deleting that entire portion of the book and then it would be "ready for publication."
Long story short – I insisted the addendum stay – Nunn – who just so happens to be a Mormon – said it could not – despite the fact she broke the contract by doing ANY edit without my prior approval – she told me – delete it and change my mind about the Mormon Church (I included it in my list of cults and documented meticulously why) or never see publication of my book.
We had at least forty or fifty probably more email back and forths – with me actually giving in and agreeing (finally) to delete that addendum because I would not break the contract. But at that point – because Nunn now knew I was an "anti" (what Mormons call anyone who says negative things about their church especially those who call the LDS Church what it is – a cult), she was digging in her heels. We both knew at this point that the professional relationship had really broken down, but I was still willing to try anyway – at going on. She was not however and told me for $1,000.00 because of "all their trouble" (yeah right – SHE DOESN'T PAY ANYONE WHO WORKS FOR HER what trouble did it cost her??) she would let me out of my contract and oh by the way, I'd never get the rights to my book.
If I DIDN'T agree – she not only intimated that she'd sue – but if I tried to promote the book and say anything publicly against the Mormon Church – she'd seek legal action as well and she warned, I should know the Mormon Church "frowns greatly upon any disparaging remarks" made against them by “vigorously defending” their church against “defamation” by any means possible to include, “legal”. Duh – that's exactly why I included them in the addendum warning people about dangerous religious cults!
It was at that point I got a lawyer. ANOTHER approximate $2,000.00 later, I received a newly signed contract that severed my relationship with ABP, had my rights to the book returned to me, and forced her to fulfill immediately any book orders she had not completed (she had already begun to fulfill the orders that hadn't been mailed out the moment my lawyer sent her the first letter demanding she do so - among other things).
Her correspondence back and forth with my lawyer was filled and I mean PACKED with lies. For example, when my lawyer asked for a portion of the $3,000.00 worth of books I could not sell commercially, she lied and said I KNEW that what they put on the cover would be there when I ordered them.
OH SURE - my ego is SO HUGE that I just wanted boxes and boxes of my own books that I could KEEP sitting in boxes in my BASEMENT so I could just KNOW they were there. Never able to SELL them. Yeah - that makes a whole pile of sense.
Lies like these were very difficult not to respond to. But I resisted because I had a very competent lawyer in Jeff Chip.
Jeff wanted me to sue her BADLY – as he felt I could get serious damages as a result of exposing her scheme – but my husband and I decided not to pursue that route.
The most important thing I did get from hiring a lawyer was that although Nunn insisted we include in the new agreement that I would not be able to say anything against ABP, I was able to get around that morally and legally. Up to this point while I received any and all copies of correspondence between Nunn and my lawyer, I was not to communicate with her at all ever. Once, by mistake in hitting reply I sent what was meant for my lawyer to Nunn which caused a stir – but my attorney was able to get things back on track and I was much more careful when I hit the reply button. I had ENORMOUS difficulty though with the gag order. SO – my attorney worded the "gag order" in such a particular way; Nunn didn't notice that it wasn't a gag order at all. As long as I tell the absolute truth about my experience – I am protected by the constitution of our great nation. I just can not say any UN true things about ABP. Which I have faithfully adhered to. I would swear to anything I’ve written here or anywhere about ABP and Nunn in any court of law – gladly.
Nunn didn't catch the wording – and she signed. So – here I am – telling the absolute truth about C. Lee Nunn and American Book Publishing. STAY AWAY FROM THE CON ARTIST C. LEE NUNN a.k.a. Nathan somebody-or-other and NEVER give them your manuscript and NEVER EVER sign any contract with her or "them."
Most unfortunate authors who have been scammed by them have signed a newer contract (that wasn't around when I initially signed) that prevents them from even discussing ABP publicly. What is essentially – a gag order. I am not hindered by such constraints and am here to warn you BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID OF THE SCAM OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING.
And I would like to conclude this by saying that due to this incredibly stressful and heartbreaking ordeal - if it had not been for my faith in Jesus Christ, I would have probably lost my mind.
My book is still not published, I still have a basement full of books I can not sell and we're out thousands of dollars. Thank the Lord it didn’t put us at any terrible hard-ship. and yet I write for Him - for the Lord -- still to this day with a full heart (currently writing a the second book in a futuristic novel series I am nearing the conclusion of ). I know all things - even this heartbreaking disappointment - works ultimately for the greater good of God’s glory. I am comforted by that.
If what I have written here can help ONE person avoid the heartbreak I went through – then honestly – it will all have been worth it!
Update January 29, 2010
If someone has ever been turned down by American Book Publishing - please send a private email to cjv123@comcast.net
I will not reveal your name - I just wish to keep a tally. So far that I know of - the number is ZERO.
UPDATE---This seems to be a photo for Cheryl Nunn - now she's going by her real name for some reason - still using various aliases for American Book Publishing though and still capable of duping people out of thousands. I recently received a private email from a soldier IN IRAQ - who was into her for over $5,000. This woman is despicable! Thanks for comments from readers of this Hub - this appears to be the woman herself!
Update again 2/4/12 -- It would appear that the link previously provided is broken. The woman has probably once again gone into hiding. But sadly, she is still duping many people out of their hard earned money.
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Great hub CJV123 and it is indeed a quagmire out there. There is one golden rule for anyone looking to publish in the traditional route -- the money always travels to the author. Anytime, anyone demands a fee for anything related to traditional publishing -- it is a scam.
So glad to see these types outed. Take a look at another -- Writer's Literary Agency. These acam aritist prey on the dreams of aspiring authors and it stinks. The stench is the smell of dead and decaying books.
Thanks for the great write.
B-Pop- yes, I went to the Attorney General in both Utah and Michigan. They both steered me to a Consumer's Action type of state government agency - I made formal complaints and the Utah one told me (over the phone) sadly - there was nothing that could be done. I received a form letter from the one in Michigan saying the same thing.
The book is free - we wrote it off our taxes the following year. I can't take any money for the books. I give them away. I could send it as a Word attachment if you'd like - but I'd be happy to send you the softcover copy - no charge.
I'm fine now - it's all part of God's plan. I couldn't write though for about a year. It was one of the more stressful experiences of my life. Never knowing if Nunn would make good on her threat and sue us (we had just bought our first home as our 25th wedding anniversary gift to each other). I felt pretty crushed for awhile - but I came back to the place where I was able to trust that EVEN THAT HEARTBREAK was part of God's perfect plan. I know He caught every single tear. I KNOW my Redeemer lives!
Immartin - I already had checked out the agency you mentioned. P&E has them as "not recommended" -- http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/pebw.htm
Carol, sorry to hear this happened to you! I've read many such stories but every time I read another one, my heart sinks anew. I hope you have better luck with your next book. I'm glad you faith helped you persevere though this!
To add insult to injury, "Advanced Review Copy" isn't even the correct term -- it's "Advance Reader Copy" or ARC (also called galleys). Had you used those for reviews the reviewer likely would have tossed it in the trash thinking it was another poorly published book. Unbelievable!
BelieversPress - thank you for the comments. They used the term "galley" but I've never had someone tell me that it's "Advance Reader Copy" and that they got even THAT messed up! LOL I can laugh at it now, but I sure wasn't at the time! Ya learn something new every day! Thanks for that!
I hope getting that horrible experience off your chest gives at least a small feeling of vindication. It's amazing to think people like that are able to get away with this kind of fraud. Thanks for sharing your pain so that others may avoid it. MM
Unreal, I can not believe crooks, scandals and thieves find new ways of stealing someones hard earned dollar through deception and convience.
They are not the only ones out there who prey on people. I have worked with many authors in discovering whether or not a company is legit. How horrible! I have self-published since 1994. What have you done with your books?
I hope you are not giving up!
It's just disgusting, the number of people out there who exist to rip-off the innocent. Well, better to be the dope than to be one of the evil ones. I am sorry you had to go through that mess, how unfair! Another good website for writers is (just google it) writer beware.
Why don't you set up your own website and sell it off that-everyone knows the story -so her 'stamp' could give added quirky appeal-under the circumstances.
Worth a try?
Thanks itakins - but I can't sell the book - we took it as a write-off on our taxes -- But I plan on someday rewriting it a bit, and hopefully getting a REAL publisher to publish it. Right now I'm pretty busy with my first novel series so I'm concentrating on that and getting that published. Thanks for the idea though!
I was going to mail 880. to them today to publish my ms.!
Thought I'd check bbb just in case. they sounded so sincere
I'm so sorry about the way they treated you but am grateful for your warning. Bless you.
jedoh: The fact that I can stop anyone from going through what I went through - trust me - my story isn't the only horror story with this scam American Book Publishing - then that made the whole thing WELL WORTH IT! Thank God you checked!! Blessings in return!
Information was helpful, there is lots to read here, which is always good when you're learning something from it good job.
I understand you have a pretty stiff dislike of the Mormon Church, but I'd like to add a warning to your timely warning - this company preys on locals just as happily.
Yes Mormon Writers - I understand Nunn has scammed many unsuspecting and particularly vulnerable Mormons. And it's sad to say because I'm sure once they find out ABP is Mormon owned, they immediately trust they are getting a legitimate publishing house and they most definitely are not.
The more pressing and troubling problem is - when I made all my local complaints to the local Salt Lake City authorities and as I mentioned above, T.V. personality - I always ask, "Are you LDS?" Most all would not answer me - which meant - yes they were. Which also meant - when I was frank with them that I wrote a very unflattering piece about the LDS Church in my book - thus what triggered me finding out Nunn was a scam - mysteriously - nothing ever came of my complaint. Nunn is violating the law -there is NO reason I can possibly think of - other than the fact authorities wish to cover up the fact Nunn is a law-breaking Mormon and possibly they refuse to help any complaint made by an "anti" - for this happening. And that's almost as criminal as what Nunn is doing. Allowing her to continue is not only hurting authors in general, but members for their own flock and I find that reprehensible as well.
I personally know of the LDS underground and how they will harbor/protect other LDS even if they break the law. It's not pretty.
thanks for this info, i was about to accept a job offer from them. I will steer clear now.
Ktnx - it's comments and communications like this that make everything I went through worth it! Helping others AVOID what I went through - those who can't possibly afford the to lose the money - makes it now something I wouldn't change even if I could. Thank you for letting me know!
Hey there, I just wanted to say thanks again. I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did. I'm a writer myself and I know how much time and effort it takes to complete a book. It's horrible what they did to you and even worse that they are still out there doing that to more authors. As writers we put so much of our hearts and souls into our work, all for an an unknown. It's all too easy to prey on people like us because we know the stats. We know it's very difficult to be published so when the opportunity comes by we often snatch it up without thinking. ABP sent me an email after one query email about their job position, offering me a contract. That seemed shady to me right away which is why I went snooping on the internet. Without you bravely speaking out against them I might have been roped into some shady contract, never been paid or worse. Thank You Thank You Thank You sooo much. I hope one day they will be stopped for what they are doing to writers.
US WRITERS HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER.
-one question, do you think they treated you so badly because of the stuff you wrote about mormonism in your book? I was just wondering because, I haven't really heard any other such horrible complaints as your about them. I know they are still bad because of the upfront charges for printing among many other things. But I was just curious if they do that stuff to every author they come across? If so you might be able to find those people and sort of band together against ABP. Although, it seems to me that the reason their scam was so extreme in your case is because of the whole Mormon thing (which is totally ridiculous btw) I can't believe people can get away with that kind of stuff.
My heart goes out to you for your struggle with these horrible people. Once again, thank you for speaking out!
Ktnx - a couple of things. Authors after me who were scammed were literally forced into shutting up because their contract contained a gag order. Nunn got wise after she scammed the first few authors.
Secondly, she threatens people all the time - just like she did Hubpages and it would appear, everyone is too frightened to take her on, they are bone weary from their ordeal with ABP or broke. I literally had a a lawyer contact me to tell me she scammed a JUDGE - I had a PhD contact me - Nunn never ended up publishing her book at all - but took her money to buy her own copies of her own books and gave her that order, but that was it. So she ran out of her own books but because her contract with Nunn not only had the gag order in it, it stated NUNN/ABP retained ALL rights to the book and the PhD was too broke to hire a lawyer to get her rights back! Her book and what she wrote about in that book was her LIVELIHOOD!
The sad, sad stories go on and on! I have folders filled with them.
I've tried very hard to get people together, but if they did seek legal counsel - they are warned because of the gag order, they'd be violated it. They won't do anything about this woman. It's very frustrating. Preditors and Editors have had their warning about ABP up about them for a long time - and now hopefully this blog will get some play enough so to set up some red flags.
She WILL eventually get hers, I may not be a witness to it - but what goes around WILL come around. She can't live her life scamming people without something eventually happening to her!
Sorry that your experience was so horrible. That was a long time ago. Do you know of any recent issues with authors? I have read many books about how to market effectively, and buying and sending out copies is actually highly recommended. Good luck to you and other future authors.
Sandy - I know of at least three issues with recent authors who have written to me in 2009. Those are just the ones who wrote to me. I know there are more.
Also - buying ones own books IS a good marketing strategy but ABP has authors buy their own books for ridiculously inflated prices. And my books - as you can see by the photo above were impossible to sell - so I paid for books I wanted to resell that Nunn sent to me impossible to resell. Not very good "marketing" to say the least.
Also every single contractual promise was not kept. An author's page with the author's photo and short bio - never there. That was actually part of my contract - I know authors paid money to have professional photos take for nothing.
The book was to be published two years from signing the contract, never happened.
Lastly - not a single book "published" by ABP has ever been in any "brick and mortar" store. i.e. Barnes and Noble, Simon Shuster, Boarders etc. or in any library in the country. Legitimate publishing houses have books in these stores and throughout the public library system.
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Do you happen to know what they charge authors now to buy their books? And how that compares to other publishing houses? I'm just curious. I believe that there is two sides to every story (the journalist in me :). I assume you follow every book they publish and check to see if they are sold in the brick and mortar stores? I am sure that would be hard to track. It may or may not be true, but I like to see the proof behind things, especially if you are against them so strongly. Thanks for your insight.
OK Sandy - I get it. Seems very evident that your arguments are truly specious.
But I'll play your game because that just gives me more opportunity to prove APB is the scam it is and C. Lee Nunn/Cheryl Nunn/Nathan Fitzgeral is the con artist she is.
Instead of being a "journalist" why not try it this way just for fun:
See it as a consumer.
If THE premier writer's resource, The Writer's Market doesn't list them as a publisher yet they've been around since at least 2000 (As of the last issue prior to the latest one they were not listed). IF they've never been listed, why?
The Christian Writer's Market had ABP in their publication and subsequently removed them as a publisher admitting to making a mistake. Explain that.
If you are a journalist with any knowledge of the publishing or writing field, then you would know, without exception, NO LEGITIMATE book publishing firm EVER asks for money from their authors upfront for ANY reason. This is the industry standard. Period. That's factual and as a "journalist" you should know this. IF a "publisher" does ask for any money from the author, that puts them into the category of "vanity" or self-publisher which is NOT how ABP touts their business. They call their business a legitimate publishing house. It is not even if they DID slip a book into Barnes and Noble.
But my guess - if you wish to waste your time - have at it there isn't a one. Do your search. Go on-line or into the stores themselves and ask for the "Publishing" House "American Book Publishing" (go to the huge bookstore chains I listed above in a previous answer to your comment) and see if ONE book comes up. If I were a betting woman, I'd bet big because I'd probably win. You won't find one.
If numerous people have had heart-breaking problems working with this so-called publishing house run by someone whose license was revoked by the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards of California, who then changes her name from Cheryl Nunn to C. Lee Nunn when she starts her "business" the journalist in your would know that this points to something extremely questionable. At this point alone, your story should lean towards a warning to unsuspecting authors. Even if you just use all of the above in just this comment alone - you would know - if you are a journalist as you say you are - that this story "smells".
Google the name "C.Lee Nunn" -
If - C. Lee Nunn - owner of ABP is plugged into a Dogpile websearch - this is a search engine that includes other search engines including Yahoo and Google in their results - after the first result the page is filled with "Writer Beware" and "Alert for Writers." Not even including just my blog.
Of course I have not tracked every single book in every B&N store to see if ABP books have ever been stocked. Your attempt at baiting me is childish and actually not "journalistic"-- simply argumentative just for the sake of being so and condescending as well with the added, "I am sure that would be hard to track..." And I think you know it.
You're not just "curious." You have an agenda - how about being honest and reveal it. Otherwise, let's just end this conversation and you go along being a "journalist" doing your research for all of these things you're so curious about. I've done mine. I no longer need any convincing. My experience wasn't the only harrowing experience with American Book Publishing. We are legion.
Instead of making comments on someone's blog asking THEM to do my journalistic research, I've already done mine. Now you go do yours if you're so curious. I KNOW American Book Publishing is shady at best - criminal at worst.
OH - And if in your "journalistic" research you can find an actual ADDRESS other than a P.O. box for this place and a PHONE NUMBER - that isn't years old and disconnected - or if you're able to communicate with the "owner" who calls herself "Nathan Fitzgeral" these days through anything other than emails - LET ME KNOW! Seems Nathan WILL NOT talk on the phone. If you're a "journalist" then ask for an interview - see just what it is you get. My educated guess is - "Nathan" won't talk on the phone or meet anyone in person because "Nathan" is really a woman - a.k.a. C. Lee Nunn a.k.a. Cheryl Nunn.
And as far as I know - there is no telephone number that works where you can reach "Nathan" and there is no physical address.
OH - and ABP "moves" very suddenly sometimes, NEVER even informing their authors. Hmmmmm - maybe they just like to move without telling a SOUL - sounds like a LEGITIMATE publisher to me! LOL
Now get real with your true intent behind your comments or I'll deny them from here on out. You want to come clean - they'll go up. If you want to keep playing "coy" and condescending this conversation is over. You feign politeness but you're being rude.
I just recvd an email from ABP to send my full manuscript in. I am sooooooo happy I came across your website. I am NOT sending it in. I have a feeling that you are telling the TRUTH and that God led me to you. Thanks.
Sherri - I'm telling the absolute truth and I honestly tried not to even exaggerate. Every time I get one of these kinds of emails or a comment like yours it puts joy in my heart! It HONESTLY does! I helped save someone else from going through the _ell I went through!! Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and let me know! It rocks my world to know it! You BET that's GOD!!!
Your warning was found AFTER I sent my manuscript to ABP, paid the deposit and worked with an editor. I received a discount ad opportunity for my book and needed the publisher's address and phone number for the ad. After searching the ABP sight for that information, which was not there, I saw your site.
This is where I am now with ABP. ABP has requested I write and have published articles, which will include the title of my book and where the book can be purchased. (Writing articles is not something I've ever done, or desired to do.) With the Lord's prompting and help I wrote a true story about two puppies we rescued, the choices that were made and the consequences of those decisions, both good and bad. It is a good story and the manuscript was accepted by another publisher before ABP, but they required thousands of dollars which I don't have. I heard of ABP from a relative that had seen a book published by ABP, and it hadn't cost the author anything.
Now after reading your horrible experience with ABP, I'm wondering what I should do regarding my book. I signed a contract. I don't have money to purchase promotional copies to be given away, and I don't want anyone to send payment for my book with the possibility of them not receiving their purchase.
Have I lost my story to ABP? What would you recommend?
Joan - not to panic! How about writing me at my email address: cjv123@comcast.net - what I would do immediately is re-read the contract and see if there is any way you can legally get out of your contract with a written request asking that you terminate. That would be the first thing.
I'm not a lawyer nor am I a professional regarding contracts - but maybe I can lead you into the right direction. Don't give ABP another dime though - and reread that contract. There must be some way you can get out and get your rights depending upon how it was written. Write to me and let me know. cjv123@comcast.net
Oh my. I am so glad I stumbled across this, though I truly hate all that you've had to go through (especially since you are military; military wives have to stick together, you know!!). I had found a job posting for a freelance editor, so I applied. I got a fabulous response back, but decided to do a little research; Thank goodness I did! I do hate this for you, but thank you for sparing me the hardship.
MILWife - so glad you wrote to tell me you will stay far away from ABP. I pray for every letter like yours there are many others who avoid ABP and simply don't write. Thank you so much for taking the time to let me know! YES - we have to stick together! ;-)
Thank you! Thank you! Thanks to you they didn't get me. The red flag when up when I checked out their website and found they want an $880.00 deposit for a contract fee. Then found many complaints on the internet.
Well thank God you weren't sucked in aspriingauthor!
cjv,
Unfortunately you fell hook, line and sinker. The sad thing is that you believed this person was a friend, this is business. Thinking that way will get anyone into trouble.
As a businessman I can tell you this; people are in business to make money, if a person can make a profit off of you they are not your friend. Until you receive a check from them, and it clears, you are prey. Sad but true.
This is a good writing, and quite informative. I hope she gets a broken leg!
Harvey - LOL! In this case though, it's not business - this woman is a scam artist.
I am saddened to hear of your experiences and frustrations with ABP. Requiring money up front is never a good sign, and the fact that you had to suffer so much time and energy and money had to be extremely rough. I do think, however, that you are closed minded towards what you have already decided is a "cult." Being vindictive of an entire group of people based on a bad experience of the one is discriminating and shows how truly ignorant you are.
I'm sure you found "research" against the Mormon Church, there are endless sites and endless people giving their opinion. You stated "I always ask, "Are you LDS?" Most all would not answer me - which meant - yes they were." You are sadly mistaken. They didn't answer because it is their business and none of yours. You, however, are so convinced that you assume (and we know what happens when one does that) you know their religious affiliation and the reasons for their actions, that it won’t matter what information they give you: you “know” the truth. In addition, I’d be very curious to hear how you “personally know of the LDS underground and how they will harbor/protect other LDS even if they break the law,” even though you’ve never been a member of the Church and have the habit of turning neutral stimulus into whatever fact you need to support your rage.
Given your response to the “journalist,” I doubt you will publish my comments because you don’t do anything unless it is self serving. But at least you might pause and consider how you are hurting others as ABP hurt you.
Well, here is an example of when someone assumes H. Saunders.
You assumed I wouldn’t post your comments. I did. See what happens when we assume? ;-)
You unfortunately have misunderstood or it’s very possible I haven’t made myself clear about the LDS Church and what I know about it here in this forum. As it is – the fact this scam artist is LDS was not the issue here nor the reason I wrote this Hub. It was a side issue explaining one of the reasons I believe this woman isn’t in jail – yet. So I can understand the confusion.
But let me explain why I know the LDS church is a Christian cult and the only cult that has been able to mainstream into our American culture. I was a member of a cult for six years. That’s what I wrote the book about – my experience in the cult I was in. That’s the book I tried to get published by foolishly trying to use American Book Publishing.
When I discovered the organization The Way International (TWI)– was a cult I needed to know more about cults. One of the base teachings of TWI was actually taken from the title of a book that was written by the founder of TWI – “Jesus Christ is not God.”
On such a day as this – Good Friday, I’m honored to be able to explain to you why it is a perfect teaching for cults to teach – that Jesus Christ is not God including the equally cultic teaching that the Trinity is just some “man-made” thing that isn’t even in the Bible and was denounced by the Niacin Treaty. Etc. Because anyone other than God is unable to atone for our sins. No other sacrifice is possible. They all are substitutes. Jesus Christ has to be God or He's not the true sacrificial Lamb.
Anti-Trinitarianism, is what the major Christian cults teach. It is the perfect tool for Satan to make certain that a person’s soul is condemned. The person believes they’re in a nice religious organization like the Jehovah’s Witnesses (ant-Trinitarian) or the Latter-day Saints (anti-Trinitarian) or The Way International (anti-Trinitarian) etc. when in truth they are in a cult. If a person takes his/her last breath only knowing the gods of the LDS Church or JW's or TWI - then they can not be saved because they never knew Jesus in Truth.
Unless we worship Jesus Christ in TRUTH – we don’t/can't worship Him. To warp this key and essential truth – as John 1:1-14 tells us that Jesus Christ was God who became flesh – then you can’t know Jesus Christ in truth which means you cannot be saved. It's like believing that a turnip is god. You go to church, you believe with all your heart that that turnip is Jesus Christ. Guess what? Then you don't know the Jesus Christ who can save your soul,
“Jesus saith unto him; I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me.” John 14:6
“God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.” John 4: 24
“In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and God was the Word.” John 1:1
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “
John 1:14 (KJV)
Notice the pattern – the word “Truth” – keeps coming up. This is very important. Naming a religious organization whatever one names it doesn’t prove its authenticity – and that is especially true of the Latter-day Saints or Mormons as they are more commonly known.
When I found out I had been in a cult for six years – I began to find out how this had happened to me. Back in those days, I went to the Library and found books – so many books and reference materials and I bought books. I made phone calls to some of the authors of these books and they kindly gave me their time.
The first time I walked into a Christian bookstore, I spent a fortune. But I also discovered something – the only books about the Mormon Church or having anything to do with the Mormon church were in the cult section. I found this no matter what Christian bookstore I went into. And now – CBD has this standard as well. That’s because the LDS Church is a cult.
One common thread – Christian cults are anti-Trinitarian. They warp the very essence of what Orthodox Historical Christianity was and is. Yet – these cults – that each proclaim are the “only” true Christian organizations – agree on one fundamental lie – that Jesus Christ is not God (for Mormons he is one of many, many countless gods) they all make Jesus something else. Thus – throwing out the concept of One God, three persons. This alone makes a church something other than Christian,
Over the years (over 20) I kept reading – I’ve read The Book of Mormon (BOM)and all the “sacred works” of the Mormon Church.
But even if I had not read the BOM - it doesn’t take someone filled with the Holy Spirit long to know that this book is a blaspheming God’s Word. The very fact that the BOM exists as “another gospel of Jesus Christ” immediately goes against Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Cor. 11:2-5, 13-15 and so many more scriptures. One of the excuses the LDS Church uses is that there are some books missing from the Bible – so there needed to be another gospel.
Yet the BOM doesn’t contain these other books.
I could go on – but I won’t.
Christians believe in only one God – Mormons believe in not only multiple gods – and goddesses – but Mormons believe they themselves can turn into a god if they just live perfect Mormon lives and take part in an occult Temple Ceremony (that’s a whole book-list of blogs in and of itself). Paying their way to Mormon heaven (they must tithe 10% of their income to the Mormon Church or they can’t partake in the Temple Ceremony. No Temple Ceremony – a Mormon can not go to heaven).
Christians who believe in truth – that Jesus Christ was God – the Living Breathing Word made flesh and came to earth to die for our sins as our perfect sacrifice – then they are saved. The only cost was the blood of Jesus shed on Calvary. He gave His life so that we could have life eternal. There is only one God – and any Church that wants to call itself Christian must believe in ONLY ONE God. If not – then they aren’t a Christian organization. Period. There are multiple denominations and even Catholics and Protestants within Christianity. But the one thing they ALL agree on is – there is only ONE God. If a religion wants to believe that kittens are gods, that is their prerogative. But if they attempt to call themselves Christian I for one – will call them on it. It’s absurd. Orthodox Historical Christianity has ALWAYS believed in ONLY one God. Believe something else, then your organization isn’t truly Christian.
The “rage” you saw here was because a woman who made comments wasn’t truly interested or inquiring. She had already made her mind up and was being sarcastic, cagy and she was deliberating baiting me. She admitted as much in her comments finally – her friend had a job with ABP and thought it was a nice experience.
This Hub wasn’t written to play games with someone who has an agenda – and in the future – these discussions will have to be taken elsewhere. I allowed that one woman to bait me and for that I am at fault. Even my comments at this writing are off-topic. This Hub was written to tell the truth about American Book Publishing because they are out scamming unsuspecting authors. I have no problem with commenting about something related but in the future, long back and forths are a waste of my time and frankly – God’s time. And the time of those who are dropping by to find out about ABP.
I do not have rage – I was peeved and angry that the woman was so rude as to not say up front what she was driving at.
I’ve done my my research. And that specific experience you also doubted and assumed I was making it up – believe what you want. But it happened to someone I know. I witnessed to him and he left the Mormon Church as a result (or so he told me). We became friends. His wife left him and it was shocking and heart wrenching what the LDS Church did to him because 1) he left the church and refused to return and 2) wouldn’t allow the LDS Church to push him around. He received death threats and was told if he didn’t stop trying to get custody of his children (
I have just sent my manuscript to them. They wanted more information and pictures and I sent them. However I have not received a contract yet---thank goodness.
My book is fiction, a novel--but really good. There has never been another book written like mine. I am so disapointed. Where is there a good publishing company. I did have my book copywrited.
You said that the purpose of your web site was to keep at least one person from going through the heartbreak that you experienced. I'm sure there are many more, but I am one that God saved from that fiasco through your information about ABP. I wrote a Christian novel that means a great deal to me. I have been trying for two years to get it published. I have received many compliments on my writing, but most publishers do not believe it is marketable. To my surprise, ABP immediately thought it was very marketable when they saw my short query and talked about publishing it before they even saw my manuscript. This put up red flags for me, but I couldn't find anything really negative about ABP until I found your web site. I do not believe, like so many Christians do, that God puts these trials in our lives. However, the Lord's gets mileage out of every experience we have, good or bad, and your web site has been a great blessing to me. Thank You.
And thanks be to God V.L.C. you are right - you are not the only person I've heard from telling me my writing about my experience stopped them from making a terrible mistake.
I'm thinking that for every wonderful letter (many send me emails and don't comment here) and comment - there are many more who come here and simply don't write to me.
Because of my commitment to help others - because like you - I believe God gives us these trials to grow and to learn - my husband and I are richly blessed. God is good. Certainly not nearly on the same scale as Job - but God saw it all, and abundantly and richly blessed us after having gone through this trial. I admit - normally - I have a rock that is Christ as my foundation. But at the time, when this happened and Nunn threatened me - it rocked my whole world, and not in a good way. We had waited a life-time to buy a home, we were in it literally only months - and she threatened to sue me with the LDS Church backing. I'm fairly confident now - she couldn't sue me no less with the LDS Church to bankroll her - but at that time, it struck child-like fear in me.
Every single time I get an email or a comment such as yours - filled with grace - I see the Lord's hand in it all. Almost as if He's saying to me, "See Carol, I gave you that trail for a reason, so that you could end up helping others."
So I thank you for the reminder and your gracious comment. And I am truly, truly thankful that the Lord has used me to help others like you. It's a great, great feeling! Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to tell me about your experience!
It is such a shame how writers have to navigate a minefield of scams just to get their books published. I read a publishing guide written by J. A. Konrath where he constantly stressed that you should never have to pay your agent or a publishing company and to be weary of anyone that asks for money before your book is published. I haven't attempted to publish any of my books yet, but I know that when I do I will have to tread very lightly. But the screw-job being given to writers extends outside of the publishing world as well. Sites like eHow lure you in with the prospect of writing for money on the web, but then they clamp down on you with legal agreements that not only dictate what you can write but ownership of your work. There needs to be far greater protections for writers, because we are getting the short end of the stick way too often.
Well M.T. - the good news is we have the internet to keep us informed now. When I got involved - the internet was a bit new, and it was certainly new for me. So while I certainly agree with you there aren't just publishing scams - there are blogging scams as well, I believe that writers can be better informed. Knowledge is power! Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
thanks for the valuable info! I was contacted by ABS and did actually send a copy of the manuscript. That will be ALL they get from me:)
Rbdouglatss -- So glad you stopped by to let me know! This is wonderful news! Every time someone writes to tell me something like this it's a victory! Thanks so much!
Have been dealing with:
Abigail Woodward Wright
Acquisitions Director
American Book Publishing
5442 So. 900 East # 146
Salt Lake City, UT 84117-7204
The letter I received is highly complimentary of my book but is very vague about the book itself. It alludes to the wonderful title and to the significant value to the reading public. As Abraham Lincoln once said of the words and promises of another, they are about as good as ".....soup made from the shadow of a starving pigeon."
Thank you for the heads-up!
And thank you very much G for stopping by and giving us this information.
I now know, they probably don't even read the manuscripts sent to them. They don't even do that small thing.
There's a call out on Preditors and Editors to all authors to let them know if they were TURNED DOWN by ABP. So far, no takers. No one seems to ever be turned down by American Book Publishing. I put out that same call - ANYONE who has ever been turned down by American Book Publishing will be posted here in a separate Hub.
I won't be holding my breath...
Thanks again for stopping by!
all writers know that if you want your book publish you seek out an literary agent. If you look at legitimate publishing houses you see books that they have publish on their home page.
Your experience is a very scary one - I hope that you learn you lesson if you still want to get your book publish join this site - it will help you locate an agent
www.writersdigest.com/
they give you all the information you need. Bye
Thank you trinigirl. The problem is, any NEW writer doesn't necessarily know this. I know all of these things now- but new writers often don't. I can't tell you how many people they've hood winked - always unpublished, new authors.
Great Hub to read after an experience I had which rings so true in conjunction with yours. What we learn from these things id homework, research and hopefully learning a great lesson.
Blessings
Check out the Preditors and editorssite. Under "opinoins" read the sales anaylsis of American Book Publishing to see how few APB books are sold. Very informative and all from data provided by APB.
Great article. I'm writing childrens books and did my homework on agents and publishers, OMG... I was surprised by what I found on the Internet WOW... Thank goodness for the Internet. Predators and Editors is a great site for information on this subject. By the way they list ABC as having a new contract without the penalty clause. This was a ten thousand dollar fine for stating any negative post or statements about them for people with contracts. I was considering self publishing for about one day!!!! I think with all of the publicity that is out there on them someone is going to start investigating their business. Keep up the good work and God bless.
Dear Dave - I hadn't read that portion of Preditors and Editors, but will because of your suggestion. I'm sure they sell very few because they do NOTHING to promote the author's book. Zero, zip, nadda. I just received a private e-mail from an Iraq war vet who was into them for over $6,000. Nunn is DESPICABLE. I'm still so shocked she's still getting away with this! Thanks for stopping by and leaving your comments!
Thanks Cinlee - we can only hope that someday she'll "pay the piper" as they say! Thanks for taking the time to leave your comments here.
Seems C Lee as Cheryl l Nunn is exec dir for an orgaization seeking tolerance for gays/les in the Mormon Church. Seems she had a face book page where her picture was shown but now is missing. Politics/orientation aside, I wonder if she really beleives in the cause, is paid as director or is running it as some means of going after a group (as in Mormon writers with APG) to make a buck. Merely curious in that there is enougn flac about her that any legit organization might see reason to want to disassociate themselves.
Dee -- I discovered that she was part of a big rally in Salt Lake some time ago for gays rights within the LDS Church myself. I would have loved to have seen a photo of her - and I'm thinking that probably is the only legitimate thing about her. She's probably a lesbian and still wanted to be Mormon as she vehemently defended the LDS church with me. But who knows - I'm curious too. If you find out anything else please let me know! And thanks for leaving your comments, it's very much appreciated.
Did you read the sales analysis report on the Preditors and Editors site?
Anyone thinking of signing with ABP should read it. There aresome whom I suspect have been served enough publisher rejections but truly believe they have a great manuscriptthat sign with the likes of ABP hoping even that type of "publisher" will get the attention of readers and/or reviewers is most vunerable. Merely read the excerpts from some of these writers and you learn their rejection from the industry reflects poor writing skills. And to think some beleive editors will look past that and polish the rough to gemstone quality. Little wonder C. Lee Nunn recommneds writers not to provide excerpts.
Dee - Yes, I had read that - the only place you can really find ABP books is on Amazon and you can sell toilet paper on Amazon - anyone can sell just about anything on Amazon - ABP doesn't do it for you at all. You're absolutely right - I put the big house publishers partly at fault as well as the snooty publishing agents. I recently read a very sarcastic, obnoxious blog by a well-known agent. They're so buys telling you what NOT to do - and making fun of the mistakes people make to attempt to get published, they are little to no help anyway.
I believe soon the old big houses of publishing to include their "well connected agents" are going to go by the wayside in the not too distant future. They accept so little talent and I know for a fact - there IS talent untapped out there. I've read remarkable materials by talented writers who can't get their foot in the door. That's how ABP gets weary authors - just as you said.
What I love about the new up and coming small publishing houses is they are "winning" because may of have tapped into the ebook market and they are scaring the pants off of the "big guys." Marcher Lord Press is one perfect example. There are Christians who don't read "Amish" books. It's so frustrating to try and find a good selection of Speculative fiction out there. Marcher Lord Press tapped into that and BINGO - one of their books just won a Christy Award! An author who probably never would have had her book published in a million years were it not for Jeff Gerke and Marcher Lord Press!
Great post...another place you might want to post your story is ripoffreport.com They have a database of complaints against many scam artist. I looked there for info on ABP before finding this post. Thanks for saving me from a similar fate.
Thank you Taylor, I will definitely look into that! Thanks for the heads up! And thank you for leaving your comments.
The defunk Speculations had an on-going thread about both C. Lee Nunn and ABP. Initially the issue presented was her plagarism, which she acknoledege occured but blamed it on an editor. She too once stated she was not the founder of ABP but left her investment job to join. She claimed elsewhere she had an investment compnay and was ripped-off, lost her home, bought a second-handcomputer and started ABP.
As Cheryl Nunn she churns and burns an investorand gets herlicence suspended. As C. Lee Nunn-note minor change- she starts ABP, get caught plagarizing, infringing on a trademark, and numerous complaints regarding paying writers for what few books were sold, complaints about contracts, ditribution etc. to the extent Nathan Fitzgearl emerges. If I recall, the Nathan is not the first other than Nunn name to appear. and now, as Cheryl Nunn she is director of some gay/lez organization, no doubt expecting donations. Wonder how much goes to the cause and how much to administration? Wonder how many supporters are aware of Nunn's background. Wonder if others running this oprganization know of her background? Wonder if she founded this group from a true belief or figuring potential supporters would send checks and not question what goes to the cause versus her?
Wonder why she removed her picture from her facebook site. My guess: she knows her past will always haunt her.
Dee - I remember when "Nathan" wrote me this "cease and disist" order when I first went public warning about ABP. It was written in a semi-lawyerly style - yet it had the same misspellings and grammatical errors her emails to me used to have. Thus the wrong spelling above of "desist". So I called her bluff - and even though the email was signed "Nathan Fitzgeral" I wrote, "Cheryl - I'm not going to take it down. What you don't remember is that i never signed a gag order in my contract and number 2 - when my lawyer threatened to sue for the rights to my book back - you agreed out of court to sign a new contract. That new contract you THOUGHT had a gag order in it. However, he happened to be smarter than you and worded it so that as long as I tell the TRUTH about my experience, I was protected by my right to free speech. So as long as I tell the truth about you and ABP - I'm perfectly within my rights."
She wrote back that I must be mistaken, I was referring to a former "employee" of the company that I was writing to Nathan blah blah" and I wrote back that I knew it was her because I recognize the sloppy way she wrote, identical to the old emails of hers I still had." She threatened me with another email full of bluster but when I wrote "So go ahead, bring it. Sue me. I'm not taking it down. And I know it's you Cheryl Nunn - and someday you'll be caught. You may have gotten a chunk of change off of me, but at least I can sleep at night." Never heard from her again. Now she just goes after the places I blog like Hubpages. Thank God they didn't cave - they stood up to her too to their credit! Thanks for the extra information. I would have given anything to see the face of this woman before she took it down! She has a facebook page as Chery Nunn?! What Hutzpah!
Checking Nunn's gay/lez organization, checking recent events, marches, addressing the state's congress, actively petitioning (other than asking for on-line- seems the inital thrust was it. Yet I wouldn't doubt, like her ABP "publishing" group, she keeps the site alive, hopes for money from little effort. Perhaps someone should check into what share of donations go to her for admin and what reallygoes for the effort. For mymoney that ratio and her background would indicate this is yet another money making scheme.There'scon artists who really work their marks, who do their homework. then there's lazy con artists who get on the phones and sell lies to get personal info.; send emails regarding Nigerian bank lotteries; and those who creat web sites wiht big promises, all for a fee.
One year ago I found ABP in the then brand-new 2010 Writer's Market, a source I trust implicitly. (Yes, folks, it was listed in Writer's Market, but just the one time. It's not in the 2011 version.) In July 2009, When I e-mailed ABP asking for writer's guidelines, I got an immediate response saying they'd like to look at my manuscript. Fortunately there were delays all along in writing the book, which is still only half done. If it hadn't been for the omission of the listing in the 2011 Writer's Market, finding that their web site had been deleted, and running across your story by googling ABP, I might have sent in my own manuscript eventually. I plan to have a conversation with Writer's Market about this. If they (or Writer's Digest) don't warn their subscribers, ABP could be lurking around under who knows how many other publishing aliases. Thanks for telling your story.
Thank you so very much closecall for telling your story here. ABP was in one issue of the Christian Writer's Market as well - but after my email to the author - it hasn't appeared again. The Writer's Market has obviously gone downhill, I had heard that with the the 2008 or 2009 addition, I can't remember when.
As long as it was a close call and you hadn't gone through with it. I have heard some really bad horror stories - I'm glad you're not one of them!!
I just got accepted by American Publishing and then a friend of mine found this link. Below is the acceptance email.
Dear Frank,
Congratulations! Your book made the cut and stood out over the great number of submissions we have had over these past several weeks.
We have reviewed your manuscript and selected it as one of the few we feel is a good match and fits our specific book publishing mission and goals. We are confident in its future success given our publishing tools, marketing, and influence. We are excited to begin our work with you, which will include traditional high quality book publishing services such as the following: assignment of a professional content and developmental editor, a separate professional copy editor, a custom cover designer and the services of our book marketing and distribution departments.
Once again, congratulations on this significant step in your career as an author! We are pleased you submitted your title to us and congratulate you on the intelligent decision to entrust your title to our expertise.
Welcome to the family! Next week I will send your book contract . You will also be given further information and instructions in a subsequent email.
Please reply to this message so we know that this is indeed the author of Escape From Berlin: The Diane Jacobs Story. We look forward to working with you.
Sincerely,
Gail
This is not to say your manuscript isn't good but I defy anyone to give me even five they've turned down! My advice is to run - run fast and run FAR away!
Sadly - they simply don't turn anyone down. That email - in my opinion should be followed with "Said the spider to the fly..."
Can you remove my above post?
Thanks.
Frank
Why Frank?
Ever read tha acceptance letter from PublishAmerica? The aforementioned ABP reads the same. Note the absence of any referance to the manuscript title, any suggestion of what that fit might be. Anything other than the name of the individual that remotely indicates anything but a form letter.
Take it from a published writer, acceptances are much more personal, typically involve some level of contact as in personal especially when a sizable advance is involved. Real publishers put their money upfront,take the risks. Phoney publishers ask writers for money. I love the refenece to APB's confidence of the book's success. By what measure do they make such a claim given not a single APB title has sold enough copies for the writer to get returned their deposit. Not one APB title -measured by Amazon rankings- has sold more than a handful of copies. Given the books are only sold through Amazon types it means there is no success in sales unless a few is APB's definition. Doubt any would agree. BEfore signing, ask APB what potentialsales they see that influenced their decision that it fit. Wiat, don'tbother, they will never respond, merely inform you of someserious needs -after you sign and send your money-for you to promote.after all they believe in your work as much as you, enough to print all the copies you wish to buy.
You got THAT right Dave. I unfortunately learned that the hard way. I hope this Hub and these comments lead to many more avoiding the expense and nightmare of dealing with this scam artist. Thanks for taking the time to write.
What real publisher would not open a dialogue with a writer they sign. More than email exchanges for certain, perhaps even a personal meeting; the latter vitallyimportant if the publisher desiuresthe writer to assist in marketing: at the publisher's expencemost likey.
ABP pushes their writers to promote, advisesthe best means is to buy several hundred copies to send to reviewers. They suggest book signings, do several monthly in that way think of all the money you can make. First, no real publisher expects any of their writers to organize any signings, the publisher does this, their name and reputation has more weight than most writers and certainly more than a first time writer, as does the publisher handle copies to reviewers: the same reason of reputation holding more weight. And no publisher would everexpectany writer -even the most famous- to do several signings month after month and never as the means to generate the majority of sales. Think of the costs of travel, hotels etc to the potential number of copies sold. But ABP expects it from their writers, blames low sales on the writer not doing enough promotion.
It's notabout getting rich, not even breaking even. It's about losing money, absorbing all the costs of promotion, following marketing techniques that border on a pyramid scheme mentality. And it all stems on having copies of your book bought from C.Lee Nunn, who cares nothing if any reader ever buys a copy. She only cares that the writers does, for saldy she knows most are really not very well written, that only friends and family, out of loyalty, would buy, as is true for most self-published books.
Exactly anon - thank you for making the case again for us to warn others!
Noted from a previous post.
"Once again, congratulations on this significant step in your career as an author! We are pleased you submitted your title to us and congratulate you on the intelligent decision to entrust your title to our expertise.
Welcome to the family! Next week I will send your book contract . You will also be given further information and instructions in a subsequent email."
We are pleased yousubmitted your title to us??? One submits a manuscript. A real publisher accepting a manuscript notes the name of the manuscript. A real publisher doesn't list the services they provide, they may reply via an email but all other communications are personel and documentation sent via mail. The contract NEVER asks the writers to pay something, the particulars of the relationship are not subsequnet to the sigining of the contract-taking money as in the case of this company- not instructions. The contract spells out monies, time frames, rights. The expectation of deliverablesfrom the publisher are clear, editing, promotion etc. the publisher's resonsibility. Copy-editing is a given, as is the fact the sun will rise.
And a given, the publisher hopes to make money by building reader awareness and demand.Sometime they fail. It is their risk based upon a abeleif the book has a potential. And that is from their experience and knowledge of the markets/readers they serve. Any winder then why some publishers handle nonfiction, self-help onlyand fiction may be very genre specific: sci fi for example.
And ABP covers all genres and pays editors royalties from sales -alone NOT a standard practice. If books sell at less than ten copies/year, and ABP claims to accept only 80 title/yr. not much there to pay even a single editor. So what level of talent can they attract? More so what talent to cover all those genres? More so, what qualified editor would ever accept royalties?
Get the idea, writers pay for the services of some very less than qualified editors with little or no experience and certainly no reputationto get any reviewer interested, and certainly wiht no experience to cover all the genres.
So the writer pays for poor editing from unqualified editors with little motivation to do better. And the only one profiting and not caring one way or the other about qulity is C. Lee Nunn. Why should she care about her company's reputation, she has no intent of promoting any books so there is no value. The only value is the term "publisher" something to sell to writers to print their manuscript
Other sites containing warnings about C. Lee Nunn/ American Book Publishing, indicate several others reported of abusive and threatening emails if they spoke out about their expereinces with the aforementioned.
If possible could you provide examples of your correspndence. I think it would give a real indication to the extent C. Lee Nunn goes to extract/extort money as well to cover her activities. She has a long history of threatenening legal actions, yet to my knowledge has never followed through. Many beleive in doing so she would be forced to reveal how she operates. But more important the contnet of the threats indicates so muchof her character -lack thereof. It would indicate what type of personality any aspiring writer would have to deal with if they don't do all thatis asked; all meaning giving her money disguised in one form or another. Would indicate her unbridled greed, perhaps even her own dishonesty.
Dee - at this time - I can't get my hands on those files - it's in an old computer at home and I'm on vacation. I'm not positive i still have them, but I think what you suggest is a very good idea and I think I'll try to dig those out and do that.I know I saved them somewhere. I'll try to remember to look for the letters when I get home. Thanks for writing your comments.
Thank you so much for this informative hub. I have been waiting for the last two years to publish a book, because of so many scams out there. I finally decided that when I have the money saved up I would self publish so I could control my rights to my book. I have been doing research on self publishing so I don't fall into a scam there too. Thanks again for your hub!
To tipoague
Was it your desire from the start to self-publish; the wait of two years to get the money to do so? Or,have the last two years been full of rejections from publishers? Is it your desire to reach readers; is it to make money? Is it really a matter of controling your rgihts? If you salf-publish, if you want to reach readers beyond your immediate geography then you best save enough money for promotion. Remember this, for all the hassles, for all the time it takes to even get a publisher to look at yuor work, most is rejected because it is poorly written. Self-publishing does not remedy this. Publishers must make money from book sales to survive and thrive. They invest in promotion, they pay to edit and print. Getting readers to consider, say nothing of buying requires more than having books. If you want to reach as many readers as possible, I would suggest rereading your manuscript, be objective, read published booked. How does your compare? Then make the changes, and go through the process getting publishers interested. If all you care about is being in print, then self-publish.
You make a good point here - even a wonderfully edited self-published book is unlikely to be noticed. An author needs to promote and probably using a good promotional company would be worth the coin. It's tough out there, but I do think the publishing world is changing. If you get a good self-publishing firm like Amazon has - then you do have an excellent chance - if your book is good - of getting your book read by the public. American Book Publishing is NOT the avenue though no matter what your goal is - self-publish or get a large publishing house to sign you. Thanks for the comments.
Remeber this: the majority of books sold move through bookstores. Readers seldom browse Amazon and the like looking for whats new. Most searchn by title or author, meaning they have an awareness.
Excluding readers who seek a familiar author's other works a good majority find new author's via word-of-mouth (includes friend/assocaiate recommendations) browsing under subject (means actually opening to book and reading) reviews, or what is displayed.
As this relates to ABP: there is no presence in book stores, there is no assistance in getting reviews, infact virtually all ABP books are not reviewed by the media. There may be author web pages but nothing to draw attention, to bring readers in. And, what reviews may exist -questionable sources- are on the author's web site, again nothing makes readers aware of its existance. But, the author is told to buy hundreds of copies to send to reviewers who in fact generally ignore self-published books for the very reason most are poorly written. What remains are friends and family buying and authors hoping this will generate some pyramid effect in growing a reader base. Well, based upon both common sense (pyramid schemes fail) and sales rankings from Amazon and B/N this doesn't work. Add the sad fact that most self-published books are not well-written, and far too many poorly edited, it asks much of friends and family to push onto others what is clearly not worth the inflated price ABP asks say nothing if priced competitively.
I submitted a manuscript to America Book Publishers yesterday. I should have researched before I did that, but I got impulsive. Thanks for this warning, now I know not to waste my time waiting to hear back from them.
I'm sure you'll get an acceptance immediately and of course that will be right along with their request to send in your "deposit". Nunn needs to get those things on her Christmas shopping list after all...
Sorry - just had to put that in. Thankfully though, you saw this and now you won't be duped like so many others have been.
I still do not understand why this woman remains in business at ALL.
Thanks for leaving your comments.
Carol
Re: elleberquist6's post. I would be interested in an update regarding if and when an acceptance of the manuscript arrives. Two points to consider: 1)Virtually all real publishers, and even agents, take at best several weeks but typically months to reply. They are inundate with submissions. 2) In the past C. Lee Nunn would get back within days with an acceptance. To think she has that level of staff is ludicrous, especilly if the unsuspecting assume ABP is a real publisher, thus ABP too gets numerous submissions. The problem however, C. Lee Nunn reads this blog, as such she must weight her greed: should she accept nd hope both the writer will pay and not post here; or, should she reject thus "proving" ABP is select. Either way, we will not know unless elleberquist6 provides details. There is one other consideration: elleberquist6 is a plant. C. Lee Nunn can try to claim thi blog prevented denied her income. Interesting the level she might try to pursue this.
Dee, if C. Lee Nunn tries to set up some kind of lawsuit that would mean she'd have to show herself in court as Cheryl Nunn and not Nathan Fitzgeral or any other alias she has tried to use. I guess I see it as, at least I can sleep at night. She has to chase all the things said about her and cover her tracks and try to guess strategy based on reading something here and trying to figure out what she needs to do to counter it. I come here and answer the comments and sleep soundly at night. She doesn't though I'm guessing.
Hi,
my name is Camille and I am in a contact with Acquisitions Director from American Book Publishing.I agree with you that as a respectable publisher,should not ask money before.
What do you think about Gail.
if you can tell me are they reliable or not?
Thanks
I don't know who Gail is Camil. But if you are thinking of signing a contract with ABP, I would just read the comments here and go to Predators and Editors and read what feedback they have gotten about ABP.
By no industry standards are they a true publishing house. They are nothing but a vanity publisher that is touting themselves as a legitimate publisher. There isn't a publisher on the planet that charges the author up front fees of any kind. Period. Only vanity publishers do that.
if it was me knowing now what I know I'd never sign with them.
Thanks for writing and stopping by. Carol
thank you so much for this. i was about to send that $880 for new authors to ABP. Thank god. it didn't happen.
I love getting these comments. Thanks thinlay - it always makes my day to hear from people like you!
Any writer who has submitted to either publishers or agents knows it could be months before they learn the status of their submission. Simply put, both are innundated with submissions, both have not the staff to be more timely. What would be so beneficial in understanding the C. Lee Nunn scam is for all who have posted here regarding an ABP acceptance to infrom us of the time between submission and acceptance. Given ABP sell few, if any books, to the general populace, rather their sales are to writers, it is near impossible for them to respond to the number of submissions they claim to receive without a massive staff.
The turnaround time is usually within days. So as you say Dee, that alone should be a big red flag. I can only hope this Hub/blog keeps helping at least some aspiring authors. Judging from the comments and my email, this Hub has done some good. Thanks for your comments Dee.
I can agree with your last post, however your experience goes back years. It would be best if the others who posted regarding acceptance gave an update as to turn around time.
Dee - while my experience goes back years, read some of the comments. Plus, I just heard from someone via email who lost "a ton of money" to ABP - she wouldn't go into detail, afraid of the gag clause in her contract she sadly signed. I hear from about two to three every few months who have been terribly ripped off, by ABP. Their experiences are VERY recent. Many of them write privately because they are afraid of the gag clause.
It is a simple request; those who have posted here regarding an acceptance from ABP, please post regarding the time from submiutting to the time of acceptance. I realize people sign, lose money and are afraid to post. My request has nothing to do with that, though it is very telling for others to know that a rapid accpetance from ABP clearly indicates the manuscript was not read, there is not plentiful or experienced staff to turn around submissions at a speed greater than real publishers. It would clearly indicate that acceptance has nothing to do with content or saleability to the general reader, rather the commencemnet of the scam to gain money from writers buying bulk quantity of their books. I have read the commnets, none reflect timing.
Good point Dee. For the ones who do not sign with ABP it would be simple for them to indicate the length of time it took to get a response. As you said, a very swift turn-around would be a sure indicator that the submission wasn't even read. Thanks.
My book was accepted and ABP sent me about 12 emails before they gave up.
My last message them.
I repeat, "I'm not sending you ANY MONEY."
Hello again
Their answer came fairly quickly and favorably,just asked for 880 dollars in advance.
Acquisitions Director to me
show details Dec 9
Thanks Camil,
Have you submitted your manuscript around yet? If not you may not have found out that what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry now, not the old myths about new authors getting advance cash contracts. We are a highly reputable company. We have the highest rate of author satisfaction in the industry, and we can prove it with over 400 author references on our site complete with their full names and book titles. You will not find that on any other publisher you have submitted too.
This is a rare opportunity for you that might never come again, we only select about 80 books a year like yours to publish and we give them a significant investment to succeed.
If you don't believe me try to submit to that list of other traditional publishers I gave you and you will find out quickly, making it into our new author program with the fully returnable deposit is a great honor and opportunity that is not likely to come around again. If it is a financial concern, we can put the deposit on your credit card or you can send in $100 now to keep your contract from expiring and the rest next year as you can afford it.
Sincerely,
Gail
Interesting reply from ABP. By what industry standard do they make the claim "We are a highly reputable company. We have the highest rate of author satisfaction in the industry,...," certainly by no standard I have ever read. The only true standard regarding reputation is how well titles sell. Poor quality -editing, content etc- are quickly identified by reviewers and the buying public. Poor contracts, no royalites and writers will leave. To be certain there is not one single source that has praised ABP. To the contrary there are numerous that report abuse and downright lying. As much as ABP would like the deposit, they hedge their bets on getting writers to buy into their lies or getting the rights to the manuscript, either to coerce writers into following their "marketing plan" or to get writers to buy back the rights. This above how telling it is for such a quich reply to an submission. As for the 80 titles a year: simply look at their selling arm and you can count few new titles listed. Could be both the lack of editors to do more than spell check as well as writers baulking at the "buy inb bulk for reviewers" scheme and having the work on the books "held up" until required tasks are completed. C. Lee Nunn refers to these writers as uncooperative. I refer to thema s either too poor to pay or too wise to be duped again.
As an example of the poor editing ABP writers receive: note the first two sentences from the ABP letter to Camil:
"Have you submitted your manuscript around yet? If not you may not have found out that what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry now, not the old myths about new authors getting advance cash contracts."
HAVE YOU SUBMITTED YOUR MANUSCRIPT AROUND YET? My God, how could anyone in publishing present such garbage. Have you submitted to other publishers or agents? We all know the subject. And "around yet".
"...what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry..." "is the facts". Are the facts dunderhead.
Aono - LOL! Great point! In fact, that is exactly how I knew the first alias Nunn used (Nathan Fitzgeral) when corresponding with me wasn't some "Nathan", it was Nunn. I even wrote back referring to her as Cheryl. Then she rapidly replied I was mistaking this person (Nathan the supposed email author) for someone who previously was with ABP blah blah. More typos, numerous grammatical errors. So I replied to that with, "I recognize the poor writing. I have all of your old emails and this letter from "Nathan" was pretty much identical to all of your old emails." To which I added - you may have swindled me out of quite a bit of money. You are obviously still trying to do this to others, but I will make it my business to try and stop others from making the same mistakes (she had threatened to seek legal action if I didn't take down my MySpace account about ABP). I told her I believe someday she'd be caught. And then I added, "At least I sleep at night. Betting you don't." I never heard from her personally again. She tried to get this blog taken down, but the Hubpages team stood by my free speech rights.
Which also leads me to believe she'll never sue. Hoping this will encourage others to speak out about her scams.
Nunn watches this blog/Hub. Once it was revealed she has a Facebook account, I noticed it disappeared later on. However, she may have just blocked me. If you can find her again - let me know if you would. I'd be interested to see what she's doing these days. Thanks for your insightful comments.
Carol
just key word cheryl nunn, she's on face book, same picture, same references to her ebing a green publishing consultant. I wonder if she pays herself as a consultant when owning ABP? I know early on (merely wayback to see the first ABP web pages) C Lee Nunn referred to herslef as joining ABP not founding same. Interesting though, when Forbes sued for trademark ingringements they served her. Only prove her lie. But then ABP also claimed they didn't make money unless the writer did. Again a lie to make it appear ABP relied on sales to the general reading population rather than to writers buying in bulk. And too she referneced her marketing staff getting the word out. Again another lie. And too, her reputation in the industry for content editing. Exactly who measures that is unknown but nevertheless another lie. I could go on, but why waste space.
just key word cheryl nunn, she's on face book, same picture, same references to her ebing a green publishing consultant. I wonder if she pays herself as a consultant when owning ABP? I know early on (merely wayback to see the first ABP web pages) C Lee Nunn referred to herslef as joining ABP not founding same. Interesting though, when Forbes sued for trademark ingringements they served her. Only prove her lie. But then ABP also claimed they didn't make money unless the writer did. Again a lie to make it appear ABP relied on sales to the general reading population rather than to writers buying in bulk. And too she referneced her marketing staff getting the word out. Again another lie. And too, her reputation in the industry for content editing. Exactly who measures that is unknown but nevertheless another lie. I could go on, but why waste space.
I can't argue anything you've written anon. And just a tip - I moderate everything that goes up here. I have to approve it first, sometimes it takes me awhile to get to it. So if you comment and it doesn't show and it seems like a long time - shoot me an email: cjv123@comcast.net
I appreciate your insights and comments.
Carol
On the old Speculations thread the ABP site was caught plagarizing on more than one occassion. Imagine that, a publisher plagarizing, but then ABP is not a publisher but a printer who charges writers outrageous prices. C. Lee Nunn responded, never denying but claiming to be a "lowly" administrator. This too proved a lie. It was demanded of C. Lee Nunn, on that same thread by ABP writers, to produce copies of the supposed press releases she claims to send as well as full accounting of royalties. None were produced. It was these claims and the lack of fulfiullment that lead -to my understanding- into the police investigation of both her and her company. Indeed, she has been investigated. Does that not say much about her operation, her deceitful practices? Merely check the number of times ABP has moved locations over the years, very telling indeed. Check the frequency the phone number has changed, her preference for email communications. Much can be read into not sending anything via U.S. Postal Service. Mail fraud is an offence. Merely read the old Speculations comments where input from attorneys was included commenting on helping writers get out of their contracts wiht C. Lee Nunn. Writers wanting out? For what reasons if the desire is to be published. Simply, they found they were not published as C. Lee Nunn made them think they were, buit caught in a trap of sold rights, demands to buy bulk, unpaid royalites. C. Lee Nunn, with no experience in publishing, with no desire to really publish, no willingness or ability to perform those functions necessary to sell books, claims she and her creation are publishers. It is false. Publishers PAY WRITERS FROM BOOK SALES. An advance, if offered, is based upon the potential sales. Legitmate vanity and co-op presses charge writers, but do nothing to hide that fact. C. Lee Nunn charges writers but claims not to be a vanity press. No matter how she might explain away the charges, it remains, the writer pays. That by definition is not a commercial publisher.
Keep it coming Anon. And with regard to the Facebook profile. I can't see her profile. When you block someone, they can't even see that you exist on Facebook (as I understand). I'd have to friend a friend of hers - and check their news feed. That would be the only way. At least, that's the way I understand it. Under my Facebook sign-in when I do a search for her, I can't find her any longer. That was shortly after it appeared here that she was on Facebook. I did see her profile for a day or two, now I can't. So if you can find some way I can sneak in to look at her profile let me know via my private email: cjv123@comcast.net
Carol
try key wording "Cheryl Nunn" sans quotes on Google.
How I was able to find the woman outside of Facebook (thanks to your tip anon) is beyond me. Thanks.
Carol
How can i thank you.... at first i was devastated but am so thankful i read this before signing anything...although just knowing they have my manuscript makes me feel violated. When you have worked so hard on something so precious to you .... well you know!
I'm just grateful that you didn't sign bfrazier. If I helped you avoid a disaster like I experienced, then that's all the thanks I need!
Don't worry about them doing anything with your manuscript. They don't even read what they get - they won't use it. Their scam is to make money off their authors - they won't steal your manuscript. They only want to steal your money.
I'm very grateful you left your comments. Keep your chin up and be encouraged - you aren't out thousands of dollars and the loss of the rights to your manuscript!
Carol
Just got an e-mail with my first name from one Kathleen Montgomery, San Franciso Bay Area with an invation to join her professional network on LinkedIn. (in my own profile on LinkedIn I wrote a few weeks ago about my intention to publish a non-fiction book in Dutch and English about the events of the ten crewmembers of a B-17 Flying Fortress, after their crashlanding near Utrecht (Netherlands) in february 1944. This Kathleen had to find my name there. Her invitation was:
"Leendert,
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
- Kathleen Montgomery
Kathleen Montgomery
Director of Operations at American Book Publishing
San Francisco Bay Area"
An alarmbell ringed with the name of this company. I thought I read your warning a few month's ago. And I was right.
Then, I searched for the profile of this Kathleen Montgomery, but no photo, no past experience, just:
"Kathleen Montgomery
Title
Director of Operations at American Book Publishing
Demographic info
San Francisco Bay Area | Publishing
Current:Director of Operations at American Book Publishing
Kathleen Montgomery's Experience
Director of Operations American Book Publishing
Publishing industry
Currently holds this position"
I suppose it's a new AKA of Cheryl Nunn, now active on LinkedIn, searching for new victims.
EXACTLY Leedart! I'm so glad you wrote and thank you for the updated information. Nunn used to be a commodities trader or something of the like out of California - so it's probably why she chose that "area." Interesting who someone with no previous publishing/editing experience could land the "coveted" job of "Director of Operations" at ABP. Isn't that just amazing?!
We can only hope that the more the word gets out, no matter how many times she changes her aliases, she'll finally be the one scammed and caught. Thanks again for your very important information.
All C Lee Nunn has to perpetuate her scam are the quotes from ABP writers. Some are questionable as to veracity but all only indicate the initial "thrill" of acceptance and seeing the cover art. I recommend to all who get an acceptance letter from ABP to inform them that before you sign you desire to contact some of these quoted writers. I assure you ABP will tell you no, that they don't want their writers bothered. I will tell you this, I have contacted several. Some will be reluctant to communicate, explaining thety fear it is C. Lee Nunn making certain they do not speak. Some will inform that they have received "threatening" emails from abp "LEGAL" department that unless they list all the other ABP writers thay know are talking actions may follow. Does that sound like a legit organization? IS that a "publisher" one wants to have control of both your manuscript and life?
Exactly anon - for the reasons you listed and so many other reasons, ABP couldn't possibly be a legitimate publisher. I can attest to the fact that they even have a positive review from ME. I never wrote it! I asked that it be removed but it of course, was not.
I also point out, what legitimate publishing company has to post their "positive" experiences for page after page anyway?
Thanks for leaving your comments!
Carol
The reputation of a commercial publisher is basically two fold. 1) Knowing and finding what can sell and 2) Building reader awareness in order to generate sales. NO REAL COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER CAN REMAIN IN BUSINESS IF SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS OF READERS ARE NOT BUYING BOOKS. Any "publisher' that replies on sales to writers and friends and family of same is likely a vanity press. Most vanity or self-publishers are honest to the extent they neither hide the fact nor disguise their fees. Frankly, when have you seen any quotes from any writer published by any commercial publisher strewn on the publisher's web site? Authors will acknowledge their editor in print in the book. What real publisher would desire to have writer quotes for other potential writers to read? The publisher care about the quality/saleabilty of the manuscript. They don't need some other writer to attact talent. They sign talent by paying an advance or at least making the writer aware they intend to do all they can to generate sales so both the writer and publisher can make money. ABP does not promotes the books they print. They do nothing to build reader awareness. This is all on the writer and in most cases few know how. What "advice" ABP provides first relies on the writer buying hundreds of their own books to send to reviewers. The hope: good reviews generate reader interest. First, most if not all reviewers will nott accept books sent by writers, these are considered and likely self-published and reviewers have little time to read anything that will likely be poorly edited say nothing of having some criteria of publishabilty. It is the publisher who sends review copies and their reputation that makes reviewers take the time to read.
Hi Everyone
I was on the interent looking for a publisher in the American market. I was very interesed in the comments made by previous writers. I was offered a contract for my novel with ABP. Fortunately some of it didnt seem right and it sent alarm bells ringing in my head. I had it checked by a lawyer who advised me not to touch it as it seems to be a sort of scam. I didnt send my manuscript only 2 random chapters and a synopsis,so when she said they had liked my manuscript I became suspicious. I think she is also using the name Gail and I am copying and pasting the email from her to me. Also I received and invite from Kathleen Montgomery that I have copied and pasted. I am Scottish and it seems like the scam net is broad. I hope my information helps to catch these fraudsters and give them the justice they deserve that is nothing less than Prison
Gina McGavin
Dear Gina,
We are highly selective of what we publish. In fact, we publish an average of only 80 titles annually and allow only a few first time authors into our New Author Program. It is quite an honor for an author to be accepted and given a contract from American Book Publishing.
Your book publishing contract is the standard form used by many large traditional and respected publishers today. If you feel you need legal advice or would like to understand better what the various clauses mean, additional information can be found in the "The Writer's Legal Companion" by Brad Bunnin, which is available to order from Amazon.com.
We pay cash advances to celebrities, successfully published authors and authors represented by respected literature agents as do other traditional book publishing companies, but we also provide a unique program in the industry for a few new or non published authors, or authors who do not have agent representation. Details about this program were included on the web page you read to submit your manuscript at: http://www.american-book.com/authorinfo.html
Please sign your attached contract and mail it back along with a returnable deposit of $880 to us so we can begin the process of publishing your title at:
American Book Publishing
5442 So. 900 East # 146
Salt Lake City, UT 84117-7204
Our review editor mentioned how engaging your manuscript was and highly recommended it to our book publishing committee. The publishing committee voted to accept it because they believe it has a strong potential to succeed with you and the staff of our book marketing department working together.
Please reply by e-mail so we know that you have received your signed contract correctly and when we can expect to receive your contract back in the mail.
We extend to you our warmest welcome from our publishing house at American Book Publishing and hope to enjoy the close relationship with you that we build with all our authors. We will begin our work by assigning you one of our exceptional professional content & development editors when your paperwork arrives at the office.
If you have any questions at all please do not hesitate to e-mail me, I'm here to help :)
Sincerely,
Gail
--
Abigail Woodward Wright
Acquisitions Director
info@american-book.com
AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING
This e-mail transmission contains information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by or to any other person is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies.
G,
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
- Kathleen Montgomery
Kathleen Montgomery
Director of Operations at American Book Publishing
San Francisco Bay Area
Confirm that
Thank you so much for adding to the comments Gina - your information is valuable. Great - they loved your "manuscript" when you only sent three chapters and are willing to SIGN you based on THREE chapters. That should tell ANYONE right THERE to stay far, far away from this mess. Unless you were Madonna or some other such celebrity, what in the world would motivate a publisher to sign a brand new author on after reading only a small portion of their manuscript? Great stuff! Thank you so much!
Hi
I am happy to expose anyone who deliberately intends to fraud other people. Authors as you probably know are not rich people. They are ordinary people who have worked hard and sacrifised a lot to write their novel/novels. So why should anyone get away with stealing it from right under their nose! Its despicable and I am all for closing the net on such people.
My email from the one who calls herself Gail or Abigail Woodward Wright was as recent as 15th March. The power of the internet is wonderful and it should not be underestimated the power of the people to expose such scams.
Again, thank you Gina very much for taking the time to add to this area where I hope we can continue to help others.
Loved Gina's acceptance letter. Advances paid to esablished authors? And exactly which ABP title os from an established author. Better yet, what established author would submit to ABP? The refundable deposit? Name one APB writer who has had their deposit returned. And why a deposit? Any publisher that had a review committee must certainbly be successful enough and knowledgeable enough not to need a deposit. Let's face it, no real publisher requires a deposit, by definition deposits go toward work. If so, does that mean editing, cover design or promotion. Would seem the writer is paying. "We extend to you our warmest welcome from our publishing house at American Book Publishing..." What??? our publishing house at? They're one and the same. Gina's attorney hit the nail on the head -pardon the cliche. It looks like a scam. Indeed they are.
anon - I KNOW - I was going to mention that. When I read her comment I said outloud to my Mac screen - "Name ONE established author with any ABP imprint! WHAT A CROC!
Merely check out ABP's selling arm: Publishers Direct Discount Bookstore. Virtually all titles listed are ABP. Though Pdbookstore claims to be independant one must find it strange that only one publisher's titles are available. Interesting as well, if this "bookstore" had both credabilty and a presence in the indusrty other publishers should desire to be listed. We could debate the nomenclature: discount till the cows come home. Needless to say, the average discounted price is still several fold above industry standards. Additionally, note how the ABP writers direct any potential reader to this site. And how successful can Pdbookstore be? Given the average sales of any ABP title on Amazon is less than five copies per year, given Amazon is both widely known and Pdbookstore wiht no indistry promotions is not, it is fair to say any sales through Pdbookstore are from ABP writers directing friends and family to that site, since few other readers buy ABP books. I doubt any legitmate publisher is even aware of Pdbookstore, but if so would see no benefit in making their titles available thorugh such an unnown entity.
I have a good friend in publishing in New York City, Madison Ave. for over 25 years - she has never heard of American Book Publishing. I wish I had gone to her first before I signed on with their con.
Hi Again
I thought I would take the time to copy and paste the leagal relevant part of my ema?l from my Lawyer re ABP. In the hope that others will read it and be warned. I did do a writers course and it covers all the legal aspects of publishing. Of course I was excited to get an offer to publish my novel from ABP but I took independant legal advice Thankfully I did!!
There is a very good book The Writers and Artist Year Book they have the listings of reputable publishers all over the world for magazine and newsapaper publishers as well as book publishers. You can get 5 free checks as a non member but if you register you can search every publisher listed, registration is free. I was advised to get this book when I did my writers course and it is an invaluable tool. simply type www.writersandartist.co.uk
Good luck to all aspiring authors
Gina
Gina
Gerard passed on your email below as I work in the Business Advisory department of the firm and deal regularly with commercial contracts of this nature. I have had a quick look over the correspondence you have had with American Book Publishing ("ABP") and wanted to give you my preliminary thoughts.
It is not entirely standard for an author to give any form of deposit and further, this payment does not appear to be dealt with in the contract itself therefore you would have no contractual right to depend repayment in the event that the book does not get published. You could take enforcement action against them however the potential costs of this would likely be prohibitive. In this regard, and given the numerous websites I found following a simple Google search which warn authors against involvement with ABP, I believe that the whole arrangement is something of a scam whereby you would never see your initial deposit returned and no book will be published.
Even if they did proceed to publish your work the contract terms themselves are heavily in their favour and you would be well advised to negotiate quite considerably with them before signing anything - a process that I suspect they would be reluctant to engage in.
Thank you Gina! You had wise council!
NO REAL COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER EXPECTS OR REQUIRES THE WRITER TO PAY ANYHING. The axiom: the money flows to the writer. The term "traditional publisher" is one coined by Publish America and ABP. There is no such animal. There are commercial publishers and vanity presses. The honest of the latter let it be known upfront what monies are expected from the writer. Dishonest will disguise the purpose of the money paid by writers. Its that simple. If you're asked to pay its a vanity press.
Keep it coming Anon!!
thank you for sharing your story. I truly believe by sharing your story you have helped many aspiring writers!
I hope so viveresperando! That's why I do what I do! To help others avoid my heartache and loss of money. Thanks for leaving your thoughts.
I am sorry to hear aabout your terrible experience with ABP. I am sorry, too, that I did not have the savvy to investigate into ABP BEFORE signing a contract with them. I will admit that I was gullible, and I believe in the value of my book, so I believed that ABP actually found it to be worth something to them. Believing that it must be "the way it is done", like a lamb led to the slaughter, I signed the contract and sent the $880. However, when I received the "Author's Guide" from ABP I began to suspect something was amiss. When I read that I was expected to purchse hundreds of copies of my book and send them out to reviewers (an added monstrous cost) I knew I would not be cooperating. There were case stories of people who set a goal of making a million dollars who sold their homes, bought motor homes, and traveled about the USA speaking weekly or more often at meetings they had arranged, and selling their books. I knew that was not in my future. My husband is a pastor, and, although I do occasionally speak at Ladies' meetings of various sorts, I knew I could not travel the nation speaking to sell my books. I could not sell our house, either - we live in a parsonage - a house belonging to our church. When I read the information about writing a letter to send with each of the hundreds of books, I was instructed to write the letter as if it were sent from a representative of ABP (they would provide their letterhead paper if I bought a certain number of hundreds of my book)and sign it with that woman's name. I was instructed in the guide that reviewers rarely consider books sent by self published or vanity published authors, so it had to appear as if it came from the publisher. I emailed that I could not do that. It was dishonest and unethical, and if it was supposed to be sent by the publisher, why did not ABP send the review copies? I received no response to that email, but in 2010 a new "Author's Guide" was sent to me via the web. In this new version, I was instructed to form my own DBA under a professional sounding name, have professionally printed stationery, and send the letters as if written by someone other than me (the author) and signed by someone else. The same caution was repeated about reviewers not taking the time to consider a self published or vanity published work. I again emailed a query why ABP does not send the galleys, and I was told that publishers do that only for established or famous authors.
I emailed that if I sent the books from my DBA, it would obviously not be sent from ABP, and therefore, why would any reviewer take the time to look at it, according to ABP's own warnings? I received no reply.
Because I was urged, twice, to send correspondence in another name than my own, I really wonder if I am conversing with several different personages at ABP as I email my queries and comments, or if it is always Cheryl Nunn, listed under several email addresses and made up names!
Thank you for your information, and thank you to everyone who has contributed helpful info here. I have received one copy of my book. I don't hope to ever see another.
It's probably Nunn under different names every time. I'm so sorry you lost your money. Just attempt to look on the bright side and see at least you didn't lose as much as some.
The very insidious thing about APB is - reviewers - legitimate ones, won't review her books (ABP books) anyway. So all of that letter-writing was for naught anyway. ABP stationery or otherwise, no true publishing reviewer - other than private bloggers - will ever review an ABP book.
If you have a copy of that first contract asking you to sign someone else's name - could you send that to me? Either contract would do actually. I'd love it scan it and post it on an "update" here. You can email me at cjv123@comcast.net
So ABP instructs writers to lie. Not too surprising, but that some actually follow through speaks of their own lack of morality. ABP is correct, reviewers seldom consider self-published books. Simply put, there is no backing of a commercial publisher, implicit, the manuscript was reviewed, was found acceptable and properly edited. But more telling, ABP will provide letterheads. What that says is they are not willing to spend a dime even trying to con reviewers into thinking the books are from a real commercial publisher. And too, it says they know few if any reviewers will bother, eihter knowing ABP is a vanity press, or they are nor aware of ABP, so why bother. To the latter, what's that say about ABP wanting, even trying to creat an industry presence. All the more proof that the writer is the sole source of income.
Note, one only discovers the deceitful practices after they sign the contract and pay their deposit. Expecting someone to sign another's name is both forgery and fraud. Sending these via postal is criminal. NOte that ABP sends all communications via email. Could it be to avoid the criminal act of sending by USPS?
Phoney names, phoney companies -DBA- all to dupe reviewers. Have I got this wrong? A phoney deposit, a phoney review commitee, phoney claims about an industry respected reputation, not making money unless the writer does, phoney claims there marketing program is designed to reach "the broadest range of readers". Have I missed anything there as well? A phoney independant bookstore. And C. Lee Nunn actually expects her captive writers to go along with the scam. Before I pitied ABP writers. Now I suspect some actually lack moral fiber, have knowingly done as asked. There is truth in the expresssion that no one can get conned unless they too were looking for easy gains.
Dee - don't paint all of us who were conned with the same brush. Nunn has changed her "contract" too many times to count. So you might be able to say that about those who recently have signed - especially with this "fake the name" business - but for years - she's only made promises from her end - we'll publish, market and distribute your book for you. I don't see how a brand new author who isn't published could be faulted for signing on the dotted line to that. Nunn is responsible for the most part because she preys on eager writers wanting their book in print.
I was not painting all with the same brush. All are conned up front, none understand what is expected until they sign and then receive their guide. I was specific, those who are instructed to sign other's names,or send letters as if they were sent by another, creat phoney DBAs and do so get little pity from me; their moral fiber was challenged and in my opinon they failed the test. They are delibertley trying to scam others all to sell their own books.
Good point Dee.
I just wanted to comment on the above posted comment concerning the editors.
"And ABP covers all genres and pays editors royalties from sales -alone NOT a standard practice. If books sell at less than ten copies/year, and ABP claims to accept only 80 title/yr. not much there to pay even a single editor. So what level of talent can they attract? More so what talent to cover all those genres? More so, what qualified editor would ever accept royalties?
Get the idea, writers pay for the services of some very less than qualified editors with little or no experience and certainly no reputation to get any reviewer interested, and certainly with no experience to cover all the genres.
So the writer pays for poor editing from unqualified editors with little motivation to do better."
I would just like to say as an editor who does work for royalties, I resent this implication. I hold an MA in Literature, and have had an opportunity to work with at least one NY Times Bestselling Author. The fact that the more successful my author's works are, the more money I receive is a very strong motivation to work through various manuscripts to the best of my ability.
First, editors working for royalties is not how any real commercial publisher operates. They pay for work, either as salary or an agreed upon amount if working with free-lance editors. That you have a unique relationship with an author, based upon royalties is most certainly not the norm. Second, the topic is American Book Publishing and C. Lee Nunn. Given the low sales volumes of ALL ABP books and the time necessary to perform quality editing, there is no incentive for any editor with any level of skill to remain. I doubt one with your credentials would edit a complete manuscript for only a few dollars, at least not as habit. Do the math. 80 titles/year @ 10 copies/title sold to readers (likely the high end) @ $20 per copy @ 10% royalty yields $1600 dollars shared among all editors at ABP. How many books can the typical, qualified editor handle successfully in a single year? At least to a level above spell-check, and we can both agree that is not really editing. Third, what qualified, and more specifically experienced, editor would not first check out the publisher with whom they might work to determine how well their titles sell in order to get a feel for what level of compensation they might expect; especially true since APB editors are assigned to writers, which appears opposite to your experience. In all, I doubt you would ever work for ABP, as such,I fail to understand how the comment regarding keeping or attracting qualified editors at ABP is offensive to you.
A skeptic by nature I was not overly surprised to read the previous post from the offended, royalty paid editor. Not surprised because only those seeking information about C. Lee Nunn or American Book Publishing would know of this site. I tried goggling "How are editors paid" (salary or hourly were the replies); “are editors paid royalties on book sales,” one interesting article that states it is occasional, certainly not the norm and question the wisdom in that the publisher foots the risk. But also states bonuses are paid to some editors ( suggests based on sales) and pay raises, say nothing of keeping one’s job is too based upon sales performance of the titles.
Back to my skeptism. I note this editor’s words “I would just like to say as an editor who does work for royalties, I resent this implication.” What implication? Explicit was the reference to ABP, low sales and thus lack of incentive for anyone with any measure of qualification to ever consider working for say nothing of remaining with such an operation. In turn, what editor would continually attempt to perform to their maximum level of skill if consistently paid little. It appears the offended editor agrees with the conclusion, “the more money I receive is a very strong motivation to work through various manuscripts to the best of my ability.” “…have had an opportunity to work with at least one NY Times Bestselling Author.” How ambiguous, “at least one.” It strongly suggests this type of royalty relationship is not normal in the industry, and in this case, the royalty relationship appears to be with only one author; or, the phrasing misleading. Regardless, I doubt this editor, if sales were minimal, would as willingly venture into this type of relationship again. To the point of this site, it is ABP’s claim of being a “traditional” publisher and the manner in which they pay editors is not standard, nor traditional and certainly not just compensation for the time spent no matter the level of expertise.
Nit picky on my part? Certainly it is, for I remain curious how this editor happened upon this site. It would make sense only if they were offered such a relationship with ABP and were dong background research. If so, I would expect thanks for the warning rather than claims of being offended. What exactly is offensive as is why this editor happened upon this site and felt the need to reply remain mysteries.
I too am interested to know why some editor would post about royalty payment. I can see that poster's confusion, that it should have read “few qualified editors would work on royalties” would be truer, but I do agree, there is no way any qualified editor would ever do more than one manuscript with American Book Publishing. And I doubt any qualified editor would respond to some ad placed by American Book Publishing without checking them out, and after seeing all the warnings would bother with them. I think it’s strange that the publisher of a New York Times bestselling author would permit such a deal with a free lance editor unless they had extraordinary abilites, and not likely they would offer such a deal to someone currently on their payroll. The editor who posted might disagree that no qualified editor would work for royalties but to resent to observation seems to indicate some personal affront. There was none.
There could be no editor worth their reputation that would work for ABP. They could make a mistake as has been proposed, and do one book for them, but there is no way a professional editor concerned about having any type of reputation in the industry would ever allow themself to repeat the mistake and do more than one book. I rather doubt the testimony by the alleged editor claiming they edited a NY Times bestselling author for the reasons spectator and Dee listed above.
Hi--
I'm so glad I read your site with your warning about ABP. I have a contract from them but your oddysey with them has caused me to step back and hold off. Thank you for the warning.
But perhaps I can return a favor for you and help you lower your blood pressure. I'm a Mormon and proud of it. But I sat here shaking my head at the skewed inaccuracies you claim about the the religion I practice. You are hurting your credibility by your claims against people who are no different than Catholics, Baptists, J.W.'s and the like. It's people, just like you, doing their best. I just laugh when I read claims like yours pretending to be expert at something you know very little about. I've never, ever seen anything go on in this church like you've described about members covering for other members of the law. In fact, some of my best friends in the church are highway patrol, SWAT team members, FBI, you name it. They don't let another member get away with jack--anywhere. And they get very angry and perhaps tougher on anyone thinking their religion gets them off of anything--I've been a witness to that.
Your exaggerated remarks about our practices are offensive, and so off the mark. I'm offended by those false claims. I don't practice my faith that way, never have, and if the Mormon Church was the way you described, I wouldn't be a member of it. So be careful how you submit to the the slavery of your skewed perspective. Just because this publisher Nunn may be a terrible Mormon, I can introduce you to Catholics, Baptists, Jews--anyone who is an embarrassment to their faith.
I think it's high time we get off this judgemental band wagon of taking shots at other faiths. I've always been taught in my "Mormon" religion to never do that and we are always admonished to never do what you are doing--to attack another religion but to be supportive of them. We are not a cult. I live this faith with my family and children and what you said about how they live is so far from the truth, it's comical. I'm there, I see it, I live it, you don't. I can see how you've got yourself worked up about this publisher, and perhaps rightly so, but Mormonism has nothing to do with it. I could prove it, but I doubt you have the open mindedness to really see what's going on.
Calm down and relax. Do yourself a favor and put your literary rifle down. Christianity is about unity, not taking shots at others. You should know that if you read the same Christian Bible we do.
Cheers.
I'm very sorry you feel my claims about the Mormon Church aren't true. They are true. I've spent over a decade not only studying your religion, but I have had years of experience with exiting Mormons and the things that have happened to them just because they wish to leave your false religion. The disregard by Mormon authorities even when crimes are reported that are compulsory to seek further action for, go ignored when it's a former Mormon making claims against a practicing Mormon and the authorities are Mormon. It's a fact - but it's a he said she said type of thing. The thing of it is, I'm telling the truth, you're writing from the deceived mind of a cult victim.
And before you say that you'd never be a member of a church if your church did these things, then you also need to study your church history about the vast cover-ups and law breaking your church has been a party to. It's throughout your church history. Don't take my word for it - study your own church history -- not the history you're taught by your church, the newspapers of the times, the record books - documents that have no axe to grind, just reports about the facts.
Also, you are absolutely wrong when you say the Mormon Church is no different than the Catholic Church. For 2000 years, Catholicism and Protestantism or better known as Orthodox historical Christianity has been and always will be monotheistic. There are no exceptions to this. Yet Mormonism comes along in the late 1800's and starts out as monotheistic but then turns polytheistic and still is today. It would be impossible for Mormonism to be the same or "no different than" the Catholic Church. Protestants and Catholics believe in one God, three persons. Period. Mormonism not only believes in the blasphemous teachings of there being as many gods as the stars ruling over their own earths with their goddess wife, but they also believe they themselves can turn into a god someday - gods in embryo as it is taught in your Sunday schools. That is, IF good Mormons pay their tithe and marry another Mormon through the Mormon Temple Ceremony. In other words, a Mormon must pay to go to heaven. This is utter nonsense and so far from true Christianity it would be laughable were it not for the fact that Mormonism uses untold billions to bolster their reputation by paying publicity firms to dupe the world as to what Mormonism is truly about, and it's sadly working.
How much does the LDS Church take in and where does it go? The LDS Church keeps this a deep dark secret from its own members sadly!
Lastly, I've ready all of your "holy" books including the Book of Mormon more than once. I know what your church teaches and it's not even close to Christianity. Your Church doesn't believe that Jesus Christ was God who became God's Eternal Word in the flesh as John Chapter 1 teaches us. Your Church teaches Jesus was the brother of Satan. NOT Christian in ANY manner.
I am reporting facts here and can easily back it up. So your claims that I am being judgmental and making false claims are in themselves utterly false. Go do your own research and prove anything I've just said here wrong and like what has happily happened with others who have challenged me, in some cases they found I am telling the absolute truth and due to this discovery, they have left the Mormon church thankfully. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong and your eyes will be opened to the huge deception the Mormon Church has perpetrated on the world, their own members and how the Mormon Church has offended God with their blasphemous teachings.
Interesting that so many religions, in addition to their beliefs in some devine being/entity, the rituals to follow also provide many doctrines for how to live one's life, more so, how to interact with with your fellow man. "Do unto others..." very common among many faiths. When Christ was tested, was asked of the Ten Commandments which was most important, he replied above all, "do onto others..." We like the idea of a final judgement, both to punish the inequiteis placed upon us as well as to reward our living a moral life. That historically I find reason not to believe in the Mormon faith is my opinoin. But, I know many Mormons, know they are kind, honest people. I can not help but beleive this is part of what they receive from their faith, as I see in many Protestants and Catholics and even Muslims. I thinkl God desires us to live our lives wiht actions that are ion line with doing onto others. I think as well, this is more important than the rituals that too often become rote, their meaning too often lost. So attack away. It will do little to change my mind.
Regarding JGK's remarks. Of utmost importance, and keeping with the purpose of this thread, they have indicated gratitude and I assume by holding off, they will not fall victim. What JGk might want to consider as well is that this site relates an acceptance of a book contrary to Mormon beliefs and after the fact desired significant changes. It is more than apparent the content was not reviewed giving further eveidnece of accepting anything merely for the purpose of begining the scam. Additionally, ABP past indicates C. Lee Nunn was attempting to dupe Mormons. What that says about susceptabilty is anyone's guess but I think it might indicate she understood how susecptable some groups are when they follow without question. Now before you nail me to the wall remember this: Utah has one of the highest rates of pyramid schemes in the country. The LDS Church is very influential in determining acceptable books. I have heard from some Mormon authors that if not accepted for Desseret books stores it is unlikely they will have any success selling their books.
Thanks anon - you're right - the comments were off topic and that will be an end to it. And in agreement with you as I've been told this numerous times, Nunn has duped unsuspecting Mormons over and over. It's especially egregious because I'm sure that unsuspecting LDS will tend to want to trust someone who calls themselves Mormon (but if you delve into Nunn's background -which they can't any longer because she doesn't use that name) Nunn hardly adheres to even Mormon doctrine. She wants the Mormon church to accept homosexual behavior. Sanction it so to speak. So the fact she calls herself LDS so she can lure her own is especially awful. She is truly a monster because she preys on people who will trust her as well as those who have dreams of becoming published.
Dee - you are right. My beef isn't really with the LDS faithful anyway, it is with the LDS Church leadership. I have no animosity towards LDS members themselves as a rule. However, what I do have a beef with in regard to members is when they blast off with "You're not telling the truth about my church." I have no reason to make this up. What the LDS Church teaches is very simple to look up and to verify. Going to exit websites and blogs, anyone can also read about the experiences of those who try to leave the church and the horror stories that occur as a result. They ring true. Add to that the fact I personally have had an experience with a former LDS who confessed (after he left the LDS church) that he himself was very high in leadership and perpetuated these gross and terrible things against those who would "dare" leave the LDS church. I was stunned by the stories. He was ashamed and due to his exiting the church was then on the receiving end of these terrible things.
I know of what I speak/write.
Anyway - it's off topic, this is not a good place to chatter on about the fact that the LDS Church isn't a Christian church, but sadly, the only cult in American history that has managed to mainstream itself. Thanks for your comments Dee.
Thank you for sparing another lamb from the slaughter. I am very sad at the state of human beings. I am a writer, but it seems few will ever read my words. How can we know who to trust?
lest we forget Scientology. The fact that Ron L. Hubbard commneted the best way to make money was to form a religion speaks volumes. And looking at Joseph Smith's background it would seem he had some dubiousness as well. The past and even recent history are full of charismatics. Sadly, too often they do so to make a buck.But would we rather have a world of total skeptics, untrusting, unwilling to give or have scam artists feeding on these characteristics. Best is to provide information to refute the scammers, to present the cult aspects and hope people remain trusting. As to C. Lee Nunn. I hope writers will not be discouraged if conned by her BUT I wish many would take an objective look at what they write, perhaps read more from published authors. It might let many know they are not talented, a good story but no writing skills.
As always you add volumes of solid good advice and thoughtful comments. Thanks Dee.
Rose, don't be discouraged. Someone can read your writing. More and more Indie publishers are popping up all over the place, self-publishing doesn't have the stigma it did before and if you do your research into what WON'T a true publisher ask of you - you'll be alright. When I signed on with Nunn - the internet was just catching on - and the information wasn't as plentiful as it is now. Come here and ask or go to Predators and Editors or other such avenues. One simple thing is to Bing the publishers name. Then Bing the person who contacts you. Etc. Don't get discouraged!
Because so many are literate, that computers are so prevelant, publishers are inundated with submissions. Thus the agent, and too many publishers relying on them as the first line of quality/sales potential. But agents get a percent of the writer's percent. A long haul before an agent can make any real money. So both the publishers and agents seek manuscripts that might fall into what is currently popular; would prefer some recognized author whose name alone will attract readers. And because of the volumes of submissions both request a query letter, perhaps a synopsis ewven before considering the actual work, that which is really all any should care about. Recall Longefellows epic poem: Evangeline. Recal the comical synopsis provided: Boy meets girl, loses girl, finds girl, kisses girl, then dies. Imagine a synpsis for To Kill a Mockingbird.
My point: far too mant might have an interesting story but have little to know skills to write the story, but access to technology. The publishing industry reacts but in reality to expediate have created obstacles to the reading the manuscript. Scammers prey upon the writers who have been rejected, are unwilling to wait the months for an agent or publisher to get around to their work. A prime time for Indies to emerge but they too become inundated, and begin to close submissions, go toward agents only. The solution: well, it would be nice if some rejections were more than form letters, some actually told the writer their work was garbage content obejctively speaking is iffy but skills are fair game. It might reduce the slush piles. But in reality it would be best if all the obstacles were removed, the mansucript is judged alone, publishers would be willing to once again nurture new talent. But then it would take time to make the sales and some publishers have little margin for nurturing. Still, it is the work that matters. Publishers should accept a brief synopsis, perhaps a chapter outine and SAMPLE CHAPTERS to view both style and flow. The best of all worlds would be an independant review board to which writers would submit their work, get some "grade" and wiht that approcah publishers. Difficult but imagine how it culls the crap and opens the doors to real talent.
Dee, they have those "independent" boards, but many of them - especially for Christian writers, cost money upfront and give questionable editorial advice.
I agree with everything you said and would also add, even with professional editing advice - editors disagree. Yet they agree on some rather antiquated and stupid industry standards. Not all standards are stupid, and sometimes, especially with their own "stable" of authors, after their authors have produced other books, not enforced. I just read a blog by a published author. She had multiple works under a traditional publishing house. She wrote a novel not of the normal industry standards and decided to self-publish this off-the-charts novel. Good for her. I think the time for self-publishing has arrived - and this will help prevent authors from being duped by the Nunns of this world.
My point - writers get mixed messages about their writing abilities.
One should not censor content. But correct grammar is essential. Continuity is essential. Publishers realize that an author's name sells, but reviews matter as well. A known author who gets poor reviews will have difficulty the next go around. Publishers will reject on content: graphioc violence won't go far with a Christian publisher for example. But, all publishers desire a good story written well. To accomplish the latter means the writer needs to understand at the least the basics. My point, if it's poorly written, the writer should know. It provides an opportunity to learn the craft, it removes some of the sludge that clogs the system. It will eliminate those who are either unqualified or not willing to take the time to learn. It will speed the process of review. There will always be vanity presses catering to the market of both rejected writers and those who only want personal satisfication. NO COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER is looking only to satisfy a writer's need to be in print. They are in business to make money and expect the writer to provide the material to generate money.
Note C.Lee Nunn's (ABP)claims of accepting 80 books a year. Note PBdiscountbookstores listing of new titles/upcoming titles. Certainly far less than 80. So could it only 80 writers submit/are accepted but with all the warnings out there only a handful sign? Could it be ABP with virtually no staff can not produce books fast enough? Or, is it another lie. Merely read the number of posts here where writers, having been accepted and having done their homework, are grateful they didn't fall victim. Add this to all the other sites and it would seem most are smart enough to chck things out before sending over $800 to someone they never met, someone wiht no publishing experience, someone who actually requests their writers to break the law in falsifying doocuments to appear as if they are coming from some reputable company.
As usual - you leave very insightful comments Dee - thanks for your continued input and support in the fight to see this con artist in the very least - put totally out of business!
Well its all laid out in your warning and the posting from both sides the authors who want to believe that there are scammers working out there and the ones who don't, not matter what you tell them. I have came to this life style,(having one book accepted by an an accredit publisher, one going through editing and one a work in process) but its no different then real life.
You got people who wake up in the morning thinking how
then can steal other peoples money that beauty you
got involved with was one, the different is she is a coward, she should just get a gun and go stickup a
bank, but no they prey on peoples emotions never having put their heart and soul into writing.
I got the best kick out of the person who talked about these perfect publishers who make the rules for submissions and tell us how to forward them in a form
they require to make it easy on them and everyone tells you how hard they work and how they get so many subbmissions, it seems to me that the old saying if you can't handle the heat, get out the kitchen applies?
If these clowns were so knowledgeable, maybe they should be writing their own book? sure they be letter perfect, but I guarantee you they be boring!
Your commits about the Morons are right on their a cult not like other religions, they been trying to sell that package for years, believe me I did business with them, take the cash, hold it up to the light, then once your sure its good, give them their goods.
Good job your right on thanks for the warning, but I knew enough not to send them even stamps for returning, they in business or not?
Remember 70% of the so called Publishers print less then 4 books a year.
You Go Girl!
I can fully understand, when posting here, how one will over look typos, the"i before" sequence. But reading some of the posts from "writers" let the last serve as example, the frequency of errors not related to explicable typos astounds me. I had to read the last post three times to understand not only what some sentences meant but the gist of the post. Much like the "editor" who worked for royalties, I question what publisher accepted that poster's manuscript if it were written in such a manner.
Dee, I admit, I thought the same thing.
An editor who happens upon the site and comments upon royalties as a payment method editing. A writer "...(having one book accepted by an an accredit publisher, one going through editing and one a work in process)" I won't quibble on the term acredited, needless to say the term does not apply to a publisher, there are no certificates/licences etc. granted publishers by any group to define them as such. My concern is not so much why these individuals post, rather how they found this site. The topic remains: C. Lee Nunn and American Book Publishing. In order to find this site requires some search involving those words, be it having been offered a contract/editing work, a search of potential publishers or employers, or having issues with either Nunn or company and seeking information. That I know royalty payment to editors is not an accepted practice does not negate the concept that it might produce greater incentive, but most prefer the security of a given, regardless of industry. And what can I say about a writer "accepted by an an accredit publisher", other than to say the writer's work may have been accepeted but the writer has little knowledge of or understanding of the publishing industry to use such a term. It is possible, given many "accepted" by the likes of C. Lee Nunn prefer to beleive their work was truly accepted after due consideration. Many still believe their work was reviewed and accepted by Publish America since they did recieve and advance -be it only a dollar- because only real publishers pay advances. It is hard for most writers to accept rejection, by the mere fact of submitting, most truly beleive their work merits publishing. It is reasonable then to find some who defend their acceptance by ABP or any such entities as defending their creation; or, defending a means to be paid for editing. It does not, however, explain why they post here.
Reading JRP's post is akin to the fingernails on the blackboard. No publisher would accept anything that poorly written, nor consider wasting time looking for the potential of a gem, say nothing of polishing it into something salable. The grammar errors are inexcusable. It is not a matter of taking time to proof read for typos, but the lack of understadning of proper English. Their for they're, the absence of verbs...It reads as poor vernacular.
I will grant the "morons" as an attempt at humor for Mormons, but the paragraph makes no sence.
Writers having been accepted by ABP and as yst not having signed, consider this "parable". A man takes his complete manuscript and goes to publishers, door to door and has had his work rejected by all. HE's walking down the sidewalk, finds a woman who claims to be a publisher, claims to have numerous submissions, cliams to only accept 80, and in little time cliams she reviewed the man's work and for an $800 deposit will publish it, providing she retains the rights for virtually forever. Imagine the man is you. Would you beleive the woman's claims; what if it cost nothing, would you sign away your rights? The only difference from ABP and the sidewalk publisher of the parable is location of operation. All else is equal.
GO TO MY WEBSITE-------------NEW INFO --ON PUBLISH AMERICA
THE PROMO FRAUD INVOLVING EDINBERG INTERNATIONAL BOOK FEST
BIG TIME NEWS WILL BE BREAKING SOON AS ALL COPIES HAVE BEEN SENT TO MARYLAND NEWSPAPERS
Paula, I commend your efforts to expose another publishing scam, but this area is for American Book Publishing. Best wishes though for your work trying to help others.
I agree, stay on topic is best, though the story holds interest and there are similarites of PA to ABP. First, both claim to "evaluate" each mansucript sent and claim acceptance based upon some level of "publishability," that remains both undefined and unsubstantiated. Second, sales of ABP and PA books is largely the writer and/or friends and family. Third, both retain rights so long as to appear as holding them hostage. Fourth, both are vindictive,threaten anyone who opposes their "line" though PA seems to have the resources to actually sue. Fifth, both use the term: "trditional" to pertain to their publishing enterprise when that term does not apply. The term is commercial publisher. Sixth, both have produced books so full of errors to make the claim of skilled editing rather questionable. And lastly, both have generated such outrage from writers to have numerous sites warning writers to beware.
The term, "traditional publisher" is one I believe Publish America created in an attempt to make them appear as not a vanity press. That and paying a one dollar advance. It would seem C. Lee Nunn plagarized that term for use with American Book Publishing. Not that plagarism is new to her -merely wayback the first complaints about her were in reference to plagarism. Quick aside, she blamed some editor and too claimed she was a "lowly" administrator. Interesting Forbes sent her the papers for copyright infringment.YEs, for all those who wonder about her credentials to be a publisher: there are none, merely a web site and the claim, and the term: traditional so as to dupe writers into thinking ABP is not a vanity press. Adgae always appleis, the money flows to the writer. Anyone "publisher" asking for money, no matter how its phrased or disguised IS NOT A COMMERCAIL PUBLISHER
I have had many reservations regarding the ABP contract that waits beside me. My biggest concern has been the lack of answers to the many questions I sent regarding marketing. The emails stated "I don't know" and "that would be best answered by the marketing department". Nothing was forwarded. So I sought out some local authors at a writer's workshop last evening. They all agreed that authors should be receiving, not paying money to get published. I'm thankful that your blog confirms all my doubts. Thank you!
I can guarantee you had you signed and sent your money you would have recieved your "top secret" marketing package. The gist: you need reviews, the more copies of your book you send the better the chances of hitting. Suggestions of 500 or 1000 (discounted to you, what a deal) could be expected. It is the shot gun mentality, send 1000 get ten percent and you're off and running building that readship. But most reviewers won't consider a self-published book. But, you say, ABP claims to be a traditional publisher. Well, if such an enterprise existed and were not a vanity press (self published) then, many reviewers should be aware fo them and read an advanced copy. So why then doesn't ABP send the copies, absorb the cost. After all they did accept your manuscript based on potential salability. What ABP will do is tell you how to form the letter, even create a dummy name to fool reviewers into reading your work. a real publisher 1) pays you if your book sells 2) absorbs all costs 3)tells you upfront what marketing thet intend to perform, and some may say none. None will expect you to sign without providing that information. Only the dishonest will.
Thank the Lord I found your blog. Several months ago, I had sent ABP a query about an editing position because, at the time, I had seen them on bookjobs.com and thought they might be worth checking out for a freelance opportunity. Back then, I had been obsessed with putting more work on my resume and freelancing seemed to be my best bet since I didn't live in a large city where there were an abundance of publishing companies. I had queried other companies without so much as a response or a response asking me to complete an editing test. This seemed very normal to me and I was prepared to do these tasks. Having been accepted by Pearson Education as a freelance editor, I knew my search for a reputable freelance position had ended and put ABP out of my mind. Cut to today, I received an e-mail from a woman named Stella Jackson giving me the run down of FAQs. One of the many was "how do I get paid" and this was the response:
Our current pay for entry-level freelance editors is $100 at time of printing, as well as 5% royalties paid twice a year. We support our editors in obtaining advance positions in publishing [the] industry by providing needed and helpful letters of reference. We are proud of the many success stories we have where we will hire an editor in their first position as such, and because of their experience, portfolio of work, improved resume, and letter of reference from us, are able to secure a highly sought out full-time position with a large book publisher.
A $100 at the time of publishing? Realistically, that could be up to two years after the editing process has started. So several months to a year of work with only $100 to show for it? No thank you. And 5% royalties? I've never NEVER heard of an editor working for royalties. Pay hourly was what I thought freelancers were paid. It all just seemed very odd. And the kicker, they immediately asked me to sign a contract right away without a test or assessment or anything. It's very strange and doesn't seem very unreputable to me.
I'm sorry you found out the hard way about their dealings. I pray that God continues to walk with you through all your trials and that you continue to come out on top. God bless and thank you!
Renee- thank you so much for sharing your story. Every time I hear a story like yours - someone who avoided getting scammed by ABP - I do an imaginary high five. I LOVE getting comments/emails like this! God bless you for taking the time to let me know that I'm making a small difference.
Carol
a 5% royalty based upon books sold to readers not bought by the writer. No book store presence really leaves on-line sources. Merely check the sales rank of any and all ABP books. MAybe five books a year. After discounts, etc thats maybe 2 dollars to an editor. You think any ediotr would remain? Think any editor with any real expereince perhaps even real quailifications would accept such a position? Ever read an excerpt from an edited ABP book? Typos, syntax issues, grammatical mistakes; imagine some ABP editor presenting that as an example of qulifications. And, if any real publisher knew of ABP, all they would know is all the negatives. Think these are good for one's resume?
I remember when I began my nightmare with ABP - my poor editor realized she too had been duped. She worked on my book for three years with me. She was wonderful, enthusiastic and needed to stay home because of her special needs child. So this job seemed a dream job for her. She thought she'd be given enough assignments to compensate her for her work. During the three years we became close friends and she confided in me (and told me she was forbidden from doing so) that she wasn't paid until the author was published and she received a small percentage of the books sales. I was shocked. She had taken on other assignments as well as other part-time jobs to help make ends meet in her household - but had become suspicious of ABP and thus was confiding in me. Then the true underbelly of ABP was exposed when it came time to actually "publish" my book (as yet no author page as promised and contracted - not a single flyer, or other efforts by ABP - as promised - to advertise my upcoming publication along with other broken contractual promises. However - they did provide excellent editors (working, essentially for free I found out through my own editor - explaining why she had taken on Mary Kay types of odd jobs) but they were duped just as I was - at the time - finding out I was being duped. So very sad that to this day (this all happened to me i 2004 and three years prior) they can't be stopped.
Thanks for your excellent comments Dee - as always.
C. Lee Nunn is running around the web now posting revenge-reviews of her critics' books at places like Goodreads. She's going by the name The Write Agenda these days. Read http://afantasyfiction.blogspot.com/2011/08/write- to see what I mean!!!
Audrey - how do you know this is Nunn? To me - this doesn't look like the same photo of the Nunn on FB - but then - the one on FB isn't as much of a close up. She's written a book?? ROTFL! Holy cow - unbelievable! I'd rather cut off my arm than buy a book of hers but I'm betting dimes to donuts it's a poorly written as her emails are. She's a HORRIBLE writer!
No, no, no, Rita isn't C. Lee Nunn. Rita is someone that Nunn attacked. Nunn is calling herself "The Write Agenda" these days and is attacking a lot of people.
P.S. as far as I know Nunn hasn't written a book. All she writes is fake cease-and-desist letters.
merely read any email sent by C. Lee Nunn. Grammatical errors, structural errors. Not the signs of a good writer. And given there is not some review panel, oh heck, no one reviews the manuscripts so content and skill are never the issue. The issue is getting your "deposit" and starting the ball rolling to get more money from the writer -buy 500 or 1000 of your own books to send to reviewers. Of course if you don't or demand your rights be returned, there's a fee for that. So few ABP titles sell beyond family and friends that THE ONLY WAY ABP CAN STAY IN BUSINESS IS FROM THE MONEY WRITERS PAY. Add to this the little that goes to editors or designer -they are paid on books sold to the public not books sold- that the real cost to C. Lee Nunn is maintaining her web page.
And Dee - she probably gets a friend or one of her "group" members to volunteer to maintain her web page - once up maintenance is a snap and other than monthly fee - little to no costs.
I can't thank you enough for posting this. Even scarier, this group actually took months to accept my book and a week to send the contract. Which means they are getting hip to the tell-tale signs, and making it even harder to recognize them as illegitimate.
That's very interesting Lisa - you're right - she's leaned to wait then. That used to be the big tip off with her. I'm so glad though - that that gives someone a chance to research what they are getting themselves into. It at least helps the victim in that it gives them time to figure out whether or not they are being victimized. Thank you for your heads up comment. I appreciate you taking the time.
I am a retired journalist and currently a blogger. I am investigating American Book Publishing Group. It seems like a cold case, since the police investigation happened in 2003. However, I'm still hoping to find sufficient information to write an article on. Would you be willing to share your information with me. I am willing to work on the record or off the record with you. You can get hold of me at janraefrank@gmail.com
I work at a book review publication. We recently received an ARC from ABP, "Princes & Ogres." ABP apparently has an imprint now called Millennial Mind Publishing. Thought you'd be interested.
Thanks elle - Melliennial Mind Publishing has been an imprint of theirs for awhile - but I don't know of any books actually "published" under any of their imprints actually. Thank you though - and I'm not familiar with ARC - perhaps they are actually trying to really publish a few books - who knows with them? I do know they've left a lot of misery in their wake.
To Janrae Frank. If you are familiar wiht ABP, merely from the research you have conducted, then you surely know C. Lee Nunn trolls to find and threaten the disgrunted writers. That you desire to write an article is interesting. To what purpose, what publications will this run and more so why ABP? As a journalist you know "However, I'm still hoping to find sufficient information to write an article on." is improper English. Regarding the police investigation and being a cold case; that this blog exists and is current suggests nothing cold other than a police investigation. Perhaps if you were more specific as to need and provide some credentails many might be more receptive.
Dee - please do me a favor with regard to those who comment here. Save the grammatical critique unless it is specifically relevant to a) the discussion and b) the actual content of the comment the person is making. For example - if someone wrote, "I is a super good editor and I work for Nunn and she is a compantent editor she is." Then you have a reason to point out grammatical errors, typos, misspellings etc. But when someone might just be tired and whipping off a comment - or possibly ill and a bit sloppy as they post something here - try to let that go. I know Janrae called herself a journalist - so that may seem an open door - but honestly - you sticking that in about her grammatical error seemed a bit mean-spirited to me. I'm sure you've made a mistake or two at some time in your life when you've written something that you've posted. I know I have. So try to be a little light on that in the future if you would. I value your input here very much - but I'd appreciate it if you would follow that in the future. Thanks in advance.
The Write Agenda (AKA C. Lee Nunn) has been slagging off Janrae Frank for some time over at Ripoff Report. Make your own decision about Janrae's investigation, but she is no friend of Nunn's.
See:
I note than Janrae has not replied to an above post as to why she is pursuing an article on ABP or where she intends to place it. In spite of Dee's "editorializing" Dee's questions are legitimate. Few are aware of ABP unless thay have had some form of contact or seek information. Some have run blogs warning about ABP such as Strauss and Crispin. There are general sites of warning as well. Why an article? Would it provide more than the detailed accounts in existence of those scammed?
What is thier web page address. I would like to know for certain granted much of the information you have provided here shows that the acceptance to publish I recieved is this same company you are talking about. But I wanted to double check and triple check then check again. I want to be an author badly but not so much I would blindy give my work out.
I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.
I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.
I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.
I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.
to hessecorp. If you received an acceptance from American Book Publishing Group -never found anyone who hadn't- then your finding this site and hopefully others warning of that company should be more than adequate.
NETWORKING, By Theodore Zabora is on Barnes and Noble; Here Dead We Live by Andrew MacQuarrie; Through Angel's Eyes by Deyzel; Jimmy Mack by Lawrence Hilliard; Embassy Intrigue by Roger Neetz; Give Teens A Break by John Morella ... and that was just on the first page of their published works. I have not signed a contract with ABP, but believe if you are going to make a claim like the one made about their books being on Barnes & Noble, it should be accurate ...
I would venture to say that while they can be on their website - unless it is very, very recently - ABP has zero books in BRICKS AND MORTAR stores. Virtually anyone can get their books onto any book website (save CBD as they screen very carefully). But getting books into libraries and brick and mortar stores as I understand - is quite a different story. walk into any bookstore and see if ABP books are stocked. My bet - if I were a betting woman - would be NOT.
to PG 2. On or in Barnes and Noble? I suspect on line order, in fact know it for a fact. And until I read your post I was unaware these tiles existed, certainly an indication of lack of publicity even on the part of the author. But lets be frank, check the sales ranking of each title, compare that to the deposits each of the aforementioned writers paid. the result, each has lost money. Now, if one's goal is merely to have one's manuscript in print form, so many alternatives exists, most less costly than ABP. Additionally, I doubt any of the writers you mentioned signed with ABP believing them to be a vanity press, but actually believed they were signing wiht a real publisher whose exitense relies on book sales to more than the author and the author's family and friends. that is the point of this site and so many others: ABP is not a real publisher. No real publisher expects or requires writers to pay to get books in print.
Thank you so much. I used the Writer's Market to find publishers. Found 9 and sent letters in August 2011. I got a response from ABP in late September saying 'congratulations, we're accepting your book for publishing". I then read all the crap they sent me about author testimonials and their plans to have all kinds of editors assigned to me. However, I have a friend in the publishing business in NY and she said "anyone who asks for $880 up front is a red flag". So I never signed the contract they sent. January 15, 2011 I got an e-mail from Gail as follows: "We hope your survived the holidays happy and well. As we close out the books for the New Year, we wanted to reach out to you one more time. We offered you a contract this past year to publish with us. We have just a few spots remaining open on our editing lineup for this coming spring and we would love it if you would join us!"
Tax Return season is almost upon and it is often the best time of year for our deposit contract authors to get their books going. We would love it if you would consider accepting our contract. While we know that the contract offer has expired, we are willing to keep it open to January 31st, 2012 if you would like to pick up one our last publishing spots. Please let me know if I can do anything for you."
I got fired up again and was ready to send the check until I googled ABP and found all your headaches. What a scam. I'll self publish and at least know what I'm getting into. Thanks for pointing out the stench in the publishing world.
"
thanks a lot for the info, it was very helpful and saved me from wasting my time
Note smarter now's material from the ABP email. Given the errors, it is enough to indicate the poor editing/writing skills of "Gail" at ABP. Kindly note the quotation marks. It seems SFWA has now added that C. Lee Nunn may have increased the number of aliass including one named Abigail, hence Gail.
I was laughing when I read that - it is SO Nunn's pathetic style -- she's STILL duping people though and that's the sad thing --- even with crap letters like that one.
I notice your new photo. It is your site, your choice but really... the Lions? Go Bears
Too bad - we're die-hard, long suffering Lion's fans and will remain so! Michigan is our home and the Lions are our team! ;-)
my daughter is at western mi working on her phd. To date she remains a die-hard chicago team supporter. Why, we haven't a clue. I'm getting old enough to worry about the "wait til next year" mantra. I could be dead.
We're a house divided anon - my son (who is living with us until he and his wife find a home) is a Wolverine fan and my husband is a Michigan State fan. It can get ugly during any type of sport match between the two rivals...lol My husband got his masters at Western MI BTW - good school!
so mom referees
I dont know what to say. I cant even think straight right now. I am so glad that I found your page. I love to write as well and was looking to go through some online book publisher to publish my books, that is Defiantly not going to happen anymore!! Thank you:)
I love, love, love it when I get letters and comments like this! Thanks K51 for writing!
Likley a given C Lee Nunn hasn't the money to really prusue this scam to the exent she has in the past. Merely look at how out of date her PDbookstore is and correlate that to the newer quotes on the abp website indicates fewer are signing. In part, perhaps a large measure this very site, warning of her and her company have helped keep others from falling victim. It bears repeating: no real commercial publisher takes money from writers. Money flows to writers. Alone that is all anyone needs to stay clear of ABP.
Once again - great advice and information Dee. Let's not stop the drumbeat until Nunn is bankrupt or arrested or more hopefully, BOTH.
I actually almost accepted an editing job with this company very recently. Glad digging around on the Internet has its rewards...
I LOVE letters/comments like your Krissalus! Thank you so much for taking the time to write!
Carol
Nice hub. thank you for sharing your story. I truly believe by sharing your story you have helped many aspiring writers!
Thank you so much louromano - it would appear that I have helped at least a few and I hope more.
For whatever it's worth, I'm sorry I let this Cheryl Nunn fat old whore trick me and use me for my name. I truly wish I had never met this evil pig.
I would normally never allow comments like this - and I'm guessing Hubpages may demand that the comments be taken down, but until then -- I hope enough people will read this. I'd be very interested to know how Cheryl Nunn was allowed to use your name. What was the story she gave you?
Here are the comments left by someone claiming to be the real Nathan Fitzgearl - cleaned up so that they can remain:
Greetings, all. I have personally known that lying, scamming, arrogant, paranoid, money-grubbing piece of human filth, Cheryl Nunn, for several years. She used to be a close friend of my family (until she pulled her paranoid, crooked b.s. on us, but that's another story). Years ago, this lying, despicable sociopath con artist LIED and TRICKED me into permission to use my name on her business (yes, I'm the REAL Nathan Fitzgearl). I didn't know she was a scam artist at the time and like a complete idiot, I bought her b.s. story about legally giving the illusion that her business was expanding and needed a bunch of new leadership!!! I feel so stupid for it and I really, really regret ever having done that, or dealing with this evil abomination of a human being in any way. I admit it was a stupid, careless mistake on my part. She promised me it was legal and promised me $500 per year for it (of which I haven't seen a red cent. . . .as if I had to tell you).
Cheryl Nunn also has a psychotic paranoia disorder. Recently, this loathsome abomination of a woman mailed my mother a 5-page legal threat accusing her of a crime she had nothing to do with!!! And in her letter, her style of meandering, paranoid delusions, cluttered grammar and punctuation errors PERFECTLY match the raging delusions on Nunn's hate-wesite, "The Write Agenda." The Write Agenda is an exercise in psychosis that spews defamation against everyone who has badmouthed her publishing company (I assume most of you know that by now.). The problem is, Cheryl had bisexual urges for my mother and like any psycho-stalker, she got butthurt when Mom turned her down. So she's trying to use the legal system to make my mother's life as miserable as possible.
So you see, my boiling hatred of this C. Lee Nunn criminal ________ happens to be a lot more personal than yours.
I know you read these blogs, Cheryl, and I would just like to say _____ YOU, YOU EVIL, SOCIOPATH _______!!! So go ahead and file one of your frivolous lawsuits against me, you ______, and get laughed out of court, you ________ PARASITE ON ALL HUMANITY!!!
In all the years Nathan's name has been associted with ABP and now he surfaces after ABP has removed his name and added one Abigail something or another. Not that I doubt this Nathan but how greater the impact if he posted when his name was connected. PErhaps Nathan could provide geater detail.
I was hoping the same thing - I would like much more detailed information from Nathan - but it does seem to have a ring of truth to it regardless of the lack of detailed information.
Perhaps if there was a contract Nathan could not speak out. But then Nunn's contrtacts seem to read at no time can one speak unless of course some lawyer added a clause that only truthful experiences were exempted from silence. But who would permit their name to be used for mere appearances and after the first year and no payment sit back and remain mum?
That's why I am able to speak out. Nunn didn't read the clause the lawyer included for my "silence". My demands were that I get the rights back to my book. She refused without a new contract written up that would include a "gag clause." The way my excellent lawyer worded it was, as long as I told the truth, I didn't sign away my free speech rights. This is one time SHE was had. She signed it, and I continue to speak out. He wanted me to take her to court and sue for damages, at the time - I just wanted the rights back and to be done with her. Knowing she signed what she thought was a gag clause and it really wasn't has given me a great deal of satisfaction over the years...So unless Nathan hires a good lawyer - he probably can't really speak out, I bet you're right anon.
Interesting that NAtahn claims Nunn had some sexual desires for his mother and Nunn also is/was associated witj some gays in the Mormon chusrch group. It would seem the Nathan might be for real. I have no doubts her gay support group solicites fundsw which, we we be surprised to learn, she uses to "reimburse" her expences. How so many who have no talent, are unwilling to work try to find a means to look important to take other's money. Nunn claims to be a publisher with no background. She was a financil planner who was suspended because she decided rather than actually research she just churned and burned an invester, taking commissions for each transaction.
Dee - Oh - I know Nunn is a lesbian - she was part of some group trying to convince the Mormon Church to openly accept homosexuals - I saw a news article about it awhile back before I knew what she looked like. Her name was all over the article though. So that's why this story of Nathan rings true to me.
And I know about Nunn's past with her license being revoked in California. She's a criminal from way back. I still don't understand why she's not in jail serving out more time for only God knows the things she's done. She tried to head up some other thing - where SHE was the founder - my teeth dropped out. I think that was her first Facebook page. I'm sure she took people's money then too - it was some cause - possibly some gay cause - I don't remember. I do remember thinking - those poor people are going to go to her page thinking they've found a safe haven and she's going to rob them blind...
supporting gay rights does not necessarily make one gay as supporting civl rights did not make one black.
Prior to ABP the company was called Forbes Publishing. Word from one of Nunn's disgruntled writers reached Forbes and one can read about the copyright infringment filed against her. The reason for this bit of information, and it could merely be coincidence but in San Juan Capistrano CA a Cheryl L. Nunn is President of PReston Forbes Financial Services Corp. I note the Forbes and how much that name rings of money. Even the whole name reeks of money. But then my opinoin and again perhaps a coincidence.
I knew of this about the lawsuit that Forbes won - but didn't know this about her former employer. I think what you've put together is probably a very accurate assessment of the facts as we know it.
Dee - if you were directing that comment at me I would say a...duh. I don't even really remember the content of the article in any detail but as I said, Nunn's name was all over it and as I recall, quotes by her were made as well. It was implied in the article that she is a lesbian and had left the LDS Church because she was a lesbian and had a passion for the cause to get the LDS Church to change their stance with regard to homosexuality. I know just because someone supports homosexual rights doesn't make them gay. That was condescending and really uncalled for. If I had written a Hub and didn't make this clear - fair play. However, I made a comment, just as you have. I could turn around and say simply because Nathan - someone we have no way of verifying the veracity of - said Nunn was after his mother doesn't make Nunn homosexual.
Comments aren't comprehensive and aren't meant to be thus the term "comments" not dissertations is used after the Hub.
"com·ment
? ?[kom-ent] Show IPA
noun
1.
a remark, observation, or criticism: a comment about the weather.
2.
gossip; talk: His frequent absences gave rise to comment.
3.
a criticism or interpretation, often by implication or suggestion: The play is a comment on modern society.
4.
a note in explanation, expansion, or criticism of a passage in a book, article, or the like; annotation.
5.
explanatory or critical matter added to a text."
Perhaps you could lighten up a tad and if you THINK or worse ASSUME something, ask first rather than accuse.
Nunn founded ABP originally using the name Forbes Publishing. She never worked for the real Forbes. It seems obvious why she selected the name Forbes, as I think this Preston Forbes Financial is too a made up name.
I was referring to you but did not mean it as an insult. Rather,I was pointing out your conclusion she is a lesbian is based upon,as you point out, the article,s implication. I referred to your categoric "she is" as an inference but not proven fact merely from supporting a cause.
Dee - OK - fair -let's move on. But be careful - I'm not intolerant/racist etc. and I'm sick of people who throw those insinuations and accusations around like it's confetti. It happens a lot when you're a Christian Conservative as I am. The ONLY prejudice I have - and while it's sort of funny - it's not because it's true - is against white southern women.
I realize it's irrational and extremely unfair - but there you have it. Otherwise - we are all God's children to me. I just have a problem believing white southern women are (sometimes) and I AM working on that!
But SO let's move on!
As a conservative I know what you mean. It is more than the word but the nuances others attack. If asked the color of a suspect comes across as racial. To say one is pro-family implies to some you are anti-women's rights. I love Morgan Freeman's comment when told he was one of Americ's best Black actors. He said he preferred to be called one of Americ's best acotrs, color played no role in acting.
I assume some stereoypical southern white women those gemtile, deliberalty naive take care of me daddy depicted in fiction. Can't see what else there could be.
LOL - as to Morgan Feeman's comment - Martin Luther King wanted a COLORBLIND population in America - not the other way around. There was an officer in a very high speed military school who worked with my husband. He was a great guy, but more importantly to the story, he was and is, a great, great soldier. When he was promoted "below the zone" which means promoted ahead of his peers he seethed to my husband privately, "There are going to be many people who will think I got this due to 'quotas' or due to 'equal opportunity" because I'm black. Many will never believe I got this because I worked my ass off to get it."
And as my husband added, because he was very, very qualified and deserved it.
As to the white southern women - I had this "lady" and I use the term loosely - say to me in her deep southern drawl, "I will be as sweet as pie to your face, but when you turn around, I will stick that knife right between your shoulder blades." She said that's the way Southern women were - she actually told me that.
Because I was young and naive - I thought she meant OTHER PEOPLE. She didn't mean she would do that to ME. I liked the woman, found her funny and had no reason to think I needed to watch my back. I was so wrong. She perpetrated the most insidious, EVIL plot against me that went on for a year. I never suspected. It's a miracle social services didn't come and take my children. She literally turned an entire neighborhood against me and finally, as we were packing and moving to another Army post a woman came up to me from the neighborhood and said shyly, "I owe you an apology Carol." For what I wanted to know? She then told me ______ had approached every single new neighbor as they moved in and told them I was a child-abusing, violent crazy woman and she was so sorry, but she believed her for the longest time. My jaw dropped. I NEVER knew. I knew the new neighbors were cold to me - never knew WHY. This level of evil took my breath away. I never did anything to that woman to deserve being treated like that. And when I finally confronted the southern witch, she just denied it and in her "sweet" southern drawl proclaimed. "Why, I have no idea what you're talking about Carol..." And THAT is why I struggle to stop the cringe that automatically comes to my whole being when I hear a white woman with a southern drawl speak...
As Huan Williams said I see Islamic tpyes on a plane I get worried. HE was fired for this. But the point, One Islamic terrorist or a few and the whole becomes suspect. One white souther woman and the whole becomes the suspect. And sadly it app[lies to races. But we all some is true, the Irish are drunks. The last was for humor.
So true Dee. I am working on it - as I have met such lovely Southern women since knowing this other who actually (at the time) traumatized me. Prejudice is stupid. Period. And since we're off topic...I'll bring it back around - fortunately, I don't have any other prejudice - as in against gays - just that one. But as I said, I'm working on it.
Thank you! Thank so so very much for warning me, a new writer. Thank You!!!!
Thank you Monica for believing me and leaving your comments!!
breakfastpop Level 8 Commenter 2 years ago
So sorry to hear of your ordeal. My dad was an attorney so I have always had a complete distrust of anyone who asks for money up front. When I peruse the internet looking for publishers or other outlets for my writing, I would say that 95 percent of them want thousands up front. I use the writer's market exclusively. One thing, I am curious about, did you contact the attorney general? One other thing, I would love to buy your book. Please let me know how I would go about it. Great informative hub.